Technical Early Twinair DMF failure

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Technical Early Twinair DMF failure

HELP!

Im trying to diagnose a possible DMF failure on a 2010 model fiat 500 twinair with 85 PS

What did it sound like as it was failing?

Charlie1989 ;)

'Standard diesel' DMF failre is a CHRP as you turn the engine off.

From the unsupported elements flailing around.. :(

There was a panda trekking with failure at 10k on here a while ago.


I'm sure it is brought on by abuse..as contamination shouldn't really be relevant.
 
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Charlie1989 ;)

'Standard diesel' DMF failre is a CHRP as you turn the engine off.

From the unsupported elements flailing around.. :(

There was a panda trekking with failure at 10k on here a while ago.


I'm sure it is brought on by abuse..as contamination shouldn't really be relevant.


It does make a small noise when you turn it off as the engine comes to a halt but that sounds more like the engine spinning backwards for about a quarter turn

What is a CHRP sound?

Im having a loud rumble while accelerating in 5th gear under 2200 rpm with the wheels straight.

I cant decide if it is more likely to be engine mounts or DMF with 68000 km on the clock..
 
Im having a loud rumble while accelerating in 5th gear under 2200 rpm with the wheels straight.

I cant decide if it is more likely to be engine mounts or DMF with 68000 km on the clock..

Does the car make the noise in 4th gear?
More likely a gearbox issue, if only happening in 5th gear!
I don’t think there is a DMF on this model year
 
Does the car make the noise in 4th gear?
More likely a gearbox issue, if only happening in 5th gear!
I don’t think there is a DMF on this model year

Yes it makes the noise in all gears, its really only 5th where you are at low revs for long enough for it to become annoying..

Its a loud rumble that you can feel in the floor..

I gave the driveshafts a good strong wiggle and there is no noticable play.. maybe very little on the longer shaft..
 
A 2010 FIAT 500 TwinAir 85 doesn't have a DMF.

Thanks for that information, im down to dogbone engine mount or driveshafts, but im betting its both.

The rumble depends on the steering angle and there is a tiny clunk as well.

Im betting that it is not wheel bearings after 68,000km..
 
Hi, I’ve just experienced total destruction of the dmf,clutch,clutch release bearing and the box shaft itself. It’s on it’s second box which was replaced by fiat within the year when it was new in 2014. It’s now a right off basically,gutted isn’t the word. What to do..... the car broke down by a garage,they have stripped it and one of the guys said he knows of this problem. To which I’ve trolled the net and sure enough it seems a common problem. Problem I’ve got is obv the garage want to be paid for the strip down and I’m looking for a solution,I’ve found refurb 5speeds on eBay etc,but now the garage is kinda pushing me to them supplying. I just want shot of the car now. They are quoting 2000 plus.
Spent hr on the phone to fiat Uk who just wont play ball. I give up !!!
 
Hello and welcome to the forum.

So very sorry to hear it's in such sad circumstances. I can understand how gutted you must feel.

Unfortunately the garage which currently has possession of the car has you over the proverbial barrel. Either you pay them to fix it, or you pay them for the work already done and have the car trailered away someplace else. I don't see how they could reasonably refuse to fit a replacement 'box supplied by yourself, but they'll likely load the labour charge and obviously won't then warrant the replacement 'box.

Most folks in similar circumstances have reported that Fiat will do little or nothing to help; pursuing that is more likely to lead to more frustration and anger than to achieve anything useful.

DMF's are a wear and tear item, but sadly on the TA they can cause quite a bit of collateral damage when they let go. Stories like this just reinforce why I'd not personally want to own a TA once out of warranty.

Pragmatically, I'd get it fixed as cheaply as possible and then quickly trade it in. Who knows what other components have been stressed? Paying £2000 and then having the inevitable fight for restitution if the repair doesn't last isn't a place you want to be.

If there's a lesson here for other TA owners, it's not to ignore any symptoms of excessive DMF wear; fixing it before it breaks something else is likely to prove considerably cheaper than waiting until it's failed completely.
 
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Hello and welcome to the forum.

So very sorry to hear it's in such sad circumstances. I can understand how gutted you must feel.

Unfortunately the garage which currently has possession of the car has you over the proverbial barrel. Either you pay them to fix it, or you pay them for the work already done and have the car trailered away someplace else. I don't see how they could reasonably refuse to fit a replacement 'box supplied by yourself, but they'll likely load the labour charge and obviously won't then warrant the replacement 'box.

Most folks in similar circumstances have reported that Fiat will do little or nothing to help; pursuing that is more likely to lead to more frustration and anger than to achieve anything useful.

DMF's are a wear and tear item, but sadly on the TA they can cause quite a bit of collateral damage when they let go. Stories like this just reinforce why I'd not personally want to own a TA once out of warranty.

Pragmatically, I'd get it fixed as cheaply as possible and then quickly trade it in. Who knows what other components have been stressed? Paying £2000 and then having the inevitable fight for restitution if the repair doesn't last isn't a place you want to be.

If there's a lesson here for other TA owners, it's not to ignore any symptoms of excessive DMF wear; fixing it before it breaks something else is likely to prove considerably cheaper than waiting until it's failed completely.
What cars have the DMF? Just the105 twinair and diesels right......
 
To which I’ve trolled the net and sure enough it seems a common problem.
Spent hr on the phone to fiat Uk who just wont play ball. I give up !!!

It’s a common problem with dual mass flywheels, but it’s not particularly a common fault on the TwinAir engine.
There are a handfull of failures recorded on this site for the panda TA and a few for the 500 TA
 
DMF's are a wear and tear item, but sadly on the TA they can cause quite a bit of collateral damage when they let go. Stories like this just reinforce why I'd not personally want to own a TA once out of warranty.

There have been a small number of recorded DMF failures on the 500TA so far on this site.

When I googled it, like the OP above I found hardly a mention of DMF failures and this engine...

Personally it’s this engine that makes me want to own and drive a 500. As you say the 1.2 is less complicated and more reliable to a lack of good maintenance - But it’s too sluggish and the returned MPG for a car of this size and performance is poor by today’s standards.
 
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Considering the advances made with 2 strokes in terms of engine life, emissions and fuel economy, I don't know why the car (and bike) industry continues to ignore them.

The Rotax Etec range (used in Bombardier Skidoos) easily meet the USA EPA regulations which the four stoke competitors are struggling with. The Etec is also very powerful at 160bhp from 850cc. Even better, with two firing strokes per rev there is very little torque vibration.

Que the usual remarks about ring-a-ding and smoke and mopeds. Today's DI strokers are a whole new world that we are still being kept out of.

Hats off to Fiat for making the TwinAir but they could have done so much better.
 
I know this is an old thread, but just to share my experience:

Recently replaced clutch + DMF on my 2014 500L TA 105 at the total cost of £581 (LUK parts, independent garage). Mileage was 48k.

I know 48k mi is a bit low for DMF life, but I put it down to my driving style of using high gears to achieve low rpm in an effort to save fuel. I now know better!

One Q that I have:
I read somewhere that depressing the clutch when starting and stopping the engine is one of the best ways to extend DMF life. Is this true? The reason behind this (which I won't repeat it here) sounds logical.

This leaves me also wondering: why doesn't Fiat necessitate driver to depress the clutch to start the engine? I believe this is standard in most modern manual cars? Although I suspect the reason is one of safety, not extending DMF.
 
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