and the UK..
"multifranchise":bang:
a person in Citroen overalls put FORD oil into your FIAT,
then charges you for "castrol " on the invoice:yuck:
Technical Is TRIPLE QX 5w40 Fully Synth any good?
- Thread starter Bellsy
- Start date
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Technical Is TRIPLE QX 5w40 Fully Synth any good?
and the UK..
"multifranchise":bang:
a person in Citroen overalls put FORD oil into your FIAT,
then charges you for "castrol " on the invoice:yuck:
ahmett
Prominent member
yeah basically indies are generally more trustworthy than main dealers as they are more worried about their reputations than franchised dealers, some of whom are very arrogant thinking anyone locally with a fiat must use us =)and the UK..
"multifranchise":bang:
a person in Citroen overalls put FORD oil into your FIAT,
then charges you for "castrol " on the invoice:yuck:
Basically the difference between A3 & C3 oil is in the SAPS content (sulphated ash, phosphorous & sulphur). The relevance is that SAPS improve the wear performance of the oil but can damage emissions control equipment, particularly DPF's and TWC's. C3 oils have significantly lower SAPS content and are intended for modern vehicles where the emission control components could be compromised if an A3 oil were used.
Low SAPS oils are essentially mandatory for any diesel fitted with a DPF, whereas some TWC equipped petrol cars of other marques still use A3 oil, so it's possible Fiat may have specified C3 across the range to reduce the risk of servicing mistakes. Does the cat on the 1.4 petrol 500 need a low SAPS oil to prevent premature cat failure, or is it sufficiently durable to cope with the higher additive level of an A3 oil? I've really no idea, but the cost of a replacement cat is sufficient to deter me from experimenting with an A3 oil. Even a failed lambda sensor will cost significantly more than the price difference between A3 & C3 oil.
Bottom line is an A3 oil should protect the core engine better than the equivalent C3 oil, but it might cause premature cat/lambda sensor failure on a petrol car, and likely will cause premature DPF failure on a diesel.
So anyone deliberately choosing to use an oil different to that specified has to ask the question, "do I feel lucky".
Low SAPS oils are essentially mandatory for any diesel fitted with a DPF, whereas some TWC equipped petrol cars of other marques still use A3 oil, so it's possible Fiat may have specified C3 across the range to reduce the risk of servicing mistakes. Does the cat on the 1.4 petrol 500 need a low SAPS oil to prevent premature cat failure, or is it sufficiently durable to cope with the higher additive level of an A3 oil? I've really no idea, but the cost of a replacement cat is sufficient to deter me from experimenting with an A3 oil. Even a failed lambda sensor will cost significantly more than the price difference between A3 & C3 oil.
Bottom line is an A3 oil should protect the core engine better than the equivalent C3 oil, but it might cause premature cat/lambda sensor failure on a petrol car, and likely will cause premature DPF failure on a diesel.
So anyone deliberately choosing to use an oil different to that specified has to ask the question, "do I feel lucky".
ahmett
Prominent member
I personally think my fiat will collapse before I have to worry about lambda sensors and cats
Sweetsixteen
Established member
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Worry ye not!
External engine components, brakes, electrics, and so on - things which are not lubricated by engine oil - give far more trouble and cause more concern than engine bores or bearing wear.
Modern engines are probably the most reliable items making up a car, so worrying about the exact specification of the latest hi-tech oil is really just misplaced concern.
External engine components, brakes, electrics, and so on - things which are not lubricated by engine oil - give far more trouble and cause more concern than engine bores or bearing wear.
Modern engines are probably the most reliable items making up a car, so worrying about the exact specification of the latest hi-tech oil is really just misplaced concern.
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do you not think the correct oil has some part to play in that?
Personally I would just plonk the required Selenia oil in. Of course it's pricey in comparison to others but at least you know it's going to be good for your Fiat engine.
Just my opinion
Just my opinion
Sweetsixteen
Established member
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Yes of course - the better the oil the better the motor.
But with modern metallurgy, finer engineering and improved design, it is true that modern engines can take a lot more punishment and abuse over far longer lives than motors of yesteryear. So it's much harder now to damage an engine with less-than-premium oil.
When I was trying to earn a buck to help pay for my education I worked as a pump attendant at an American airbase. One day a guy pulled in, and as we were trained to do while pumping in the lifeblood, I asked him if he'd like me to clean his windscreen and check his oil.
The hood was locked, so I asked for the key. He'd never had a key and he had never looked under the hood. The car had done almost 40k miles without any kind of inspection or oil change. (It goes without saying that the floor was deep in crushed coke cans, cigarette butts and sweet papers!)
and the UK..
"multifranchise":bang:
a person in Citroen overalls put FORD oil into your FIAT,
then charges you for "castrol " on the invoice:yuck:
I've had the wrong oil used twice (main dealers, old car, both times) and in both cases they changed the oil and filter and refunded the full cost of the service. It'a amazing what effect the words "fraud" "engine damage" and "legal expenses cover" can have.
Robert G8RPI.
ahmett
Prominent member
why is it better than others for your fiat engine? thats just fiat branding made to make money. if the specs are the same i would never, ever use selenia. why should i make fiat more profitable, its like double the price!Personally I would just plonk the required Selenia oil in. Of course it's pricey in comparison to others but at least you know it's going to be good for your Fiat engine.
Just my opinion
ahmett
Prominent member
yeah exactly. i am much more worried about my cars electronics or hydraulics (dualogic gearbox) than my engine! i just make sure its topped up with oil and coolant and all is fine = ) and of course change the sparkplugs every 10 k at most.
AGH1965
Member
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As far as I know there isn't such thing as Ford oil. Fortunately there are SAE and ACEA oil specifications. As long as the oil has the correct specification for my FIAT, even if it is Castrol oil, I have no reason to complain.and the UK..
"multifranchise":bang:
a person in Citroen overalls put FORD oil into your FIAT,
then charges you for "castrol " on the invoice:yuck:
Furthermore I don't care if the person wears Citroën overalls or an easter bunny suit or nothing at all.
ahmett
Prominent member
there is ford oil i used it for an oil change on my fiat by the way. it was 5w-40 C3 = )
It's not the engine that's cause for concern.
The engine doesn't need a high-tech oil - in fact, it would last longer using an older type of oil, as the extra additives in such oils offer better protection than the latest oils. It's all the high-tech emissions control components the engine requires for modern emissions compliance that need the high-tech oil.
You probably won't break the engine if you use the wrong specification oil, but you could easily ruin emissions control gadgetry that'll set you back four figures to fix. Modern diesel cars are particularly vulnerable.
https://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chemicals-MotorOils.aspx
IF I pay EXTRA for a trained "expert service",
that's what I expect,
otherwise I would get the £30 oil + filter change on the highstreet..,
Charlie
Fair enough ahmett.
Not saying it's necessarily better than other oils, I just prefer the idea of using it in our Fiats as it provides a certain peace of mind.
The way I see it, you can decide to have your car serviced at a main dealer or independent garage, buy premium tyres or less established brands, use regular fuel or premium fuel etc etc...there are plenty of other ways to save £15-20 a year on your motoring costs.
It's still better than no oil at all.
An engine wouldn't even run with no oil, but I reckon you could go for a day or two with sunflower oil.
Mick.
An engine wouldn't even run with no oil, but I reckon you could go for a day or two with sunflower oil.
Mick.
Lol! anyone remember this thread: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/298425-oil-grade-3.html
I absolutely see your point of view Super Uwe, but for once
I'm going with ahmett to a point in respect of I now believe it actually doesn't matter much which brand you use, as long as it is the right spec. I for instance recently mixed 2.3 litres of GM Dexos 2 5w30 acea c3, with 2 litres of Asda own brand 5w30 acea c3 and shoved that in my Saab with no ill effects. Also, Petronas I believe produce Selenia oil? and Petronas brand is cheaper.I agree, whilst the car is under warranty, not worth tempting any fate whatsoever, just use what Fiat say. After that, if the supermarkets are chucking out own brand name oil in the correct spec undoubtedly mixed by the big industry players anyway, then save some dosh and chuck that in.
Lol! anyone remember this thread: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/298425-oil-grade-3.html
I absolutely see your point of view Super Uwe, but for once
I agree, whilst the car is under warranty, not worth tempting any fate whatsoever, just use what Fiat say. After that, if the supermarkets are chucking out own brand name oil in the correct spec undoubtedly mixed by the big industry players anyway, then save some dosh and chuck that in.
+1. This really isn't rocket science- people are running rather large risks for the sake of saving a few quid every (if you follow the guidance
) 18000 miles. Just follow the sodding specification properly.I would certainly follow FIAT's recommendations (note I did not say "specifications" there) to the letter whilst in warranty- buy Selenia from shop4parts if you're on an "as cheap as possible" basis (why did you buy a 500 if you were that bothered?). An extra (say) £50 in oil over the warranty period is money well spent, compared to arguing the toss with FIAT (who aren't exactly renowned for their generous warranty provisions) over a Uniair module failure.
I'd also strongly disagree with the "a modern engine cares less about oil specifications than an older engine" comments above.
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