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General Doubts on twinair 105

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General Doubts on twinair 105

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laufer

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Hi guys, that my first proper post asking for help hahahahaha !!
Im a new owner of a 500S twinair 105cv s&s. The car has only 400kms or so, an just getting used to this little machine. I have some questions and doubts, don't know if it right or not.

I fell the car a little slow at low revs, its like it haves some voids at low rev some times. But if you help it with a little clutch spin wile gear changing there is no voids and the car runs niceeee.

All this situation always i feel under 3000rev or less, up there the car feel the horsepower it has, but wen it is low on rev I cant find the 105 hps some times.

Also another strange thing I see its, if you press down the gas pedal, with the clutch pressed, engine doesn't rev hard !!! but if you do it running order, it does. This is some thing normal or a security feature???

Maybe I'm just getting used to this tini engine, I had many cars with similar and more hp but bigger engines, which felt much faster, and thought the 105hp on such a light car should be faster. Please tel me if you fell it like that or I'm very wrong, maybe is my car.. don't know, any help welcome !!

HAvefun :devil::devil::devil:
 
obvious answer really , is to do all you can to try and drive another one, either a friend or a demo one at a dealer,and compare. But at 400k its not loosened up yet. Sorry cant be more help, but I seem to remember reading that they are a bit like that, although maybe not quite that bad.
 
I would reckon it's a combination of you needing to get used to the characteristics of the twinair and also that it needs to loosen up. It also could be just turbo lag which is normal and you will get used to it, TA's are VERY tight and grumbly when new. Mine took until about 12k miles and an oil change to feel right and it's totally different now compared to when new. If in doubt a test drive in another low mileage car as mentioned might be a good idea.
 
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Thxxx Guys!!
I always try on sport, on eco its worst.

I will try to find other one at the dealer, next week to compare, and see if this low revs voids feelling its some thing normal for the little turbo engine even if it has 105hp.

By now I been looking, and the not reving when on neutral its a "security" feature wowww...

Big thxssss
 
Only 400 km? Be aware of the fact that FIAT restricts the performance of new cars.
 
AGH1965 said:
Only 400 km? Be aware of the fact that FIAT restricts the performance of new cars.
Click to expand...

What do you mean with that, and when they un-restrict, in theory I dosent have to go back the dealer until 2 years or 30.000kms :confused::confused::confused:

thksss for the reply!
 
laufer said:
What do you mean with that, and when they un-restrict
Click to expand...
The performance restriction will disappear automatically by driving enough kilometers. In the past you had to be careful with new engines, but that's no longer necessary because of this temporary performance restriction.
 
AGH1965 said:
The performance restriction will disappear automatically by driving enough kilometers. In the past you had to be careful with new engines, but that's no longer necessary because of this temporary performance restriction.
Click to expand...


Can you explain more about this. I have never heard of this on any new car.
 
laufer said:
Hi guys, that my first proper post asking for help hahahahaha !!
Im a new owner of a 500S twinair 105cv s&s. The car has only 400kms or so, an just getting used to this little machine. I have some questions and doubts, don't know if it right or not.

I fell the car a little slow at low revs, its like it haves some voids at low rev some times. But if you help it with a little clutch spin wile gear changing there is no voids and the car runs niceeee.

All this situation always i feel under 3000rev or less, up there the car feel the horsepower it has, but wen it is low on rev I cant find the 105 hps some times.

Also another strange thing I see its, if you press down the gas pedal, with the clutch pressed, engine doesn't rev hard !!! but if you do it running order, it does. This is some thing normal or a security feature???

Maybe I'm just getting used to this tini engine, I had many cars with similar and more hp but bigger engines, which felt much faster, and thought the 105hp on such a light car should be faster. Please tel me if you fell it like that or I'm very wrong, maybe is my car.. don't know, any help welcome !!

HAvefun :devil::devil::devil:
Click to expand...
Compare with another 105 to see if it feels different.
Also it's normal that you can't rev past 3,000rpm in some cases when the car is stationary and clutch is depressed.
The TA does take quite a while to free up.
 
The Twins said:
The TA does take quite a while to free up.
Click to expand...
Two different FIAT dealers told me that FIAT deliberately manipulates this process, when I asked them if there were any things I should pay attention to during the break-in or run-in of a new TwinAir engine. Both told me that I didn't have to bother and just had to drive as if the engine wasn't new, since FIAT implemented a smart automatically disappearing performance restriction in the TwinAir engine. At first I didn't believe this, but now I think it's true. Why? Two reasons:

  1. A brand new TwinAir feels rather slow when you floor the accelerator pedal. The missing performance seems much larger than one should expect from some additional friction and some additional internal leakage of a new engine.
  2. A brand new TwinAir misses the loud TwinAir "growl" when accelerating rapidly. The engine is almost as quiet as in ECO mode. The absence of this characteristic noise suggests that quite some performance is missing.
The first time I noticed that the TwinAir in my current 500 was awakening, was also the first time I heard its loud TwinAir "growl", as if the "beast" was finally unleashed. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the odometer reading at that moment, but I think it was already beyond 1000 km.
 
maybe then it just restricted to eco mode, till say 1000 miles, then allows use of non eco / sport mode. Makes sense, and quite easy to do I would think, rather than a new set of perameters
 
Thanks all for the reply's!!!!
The car is now over 600kms and I'am little bit more used to it, also feel the engine a bit more round all together, so very happy with the little machine ;D

My dealer also told me that no breaking had to be done, but not because had some special parameters loaded for first kms or eco mode running, only because it already had the breaking done the factory.

The voids I'm sure its some thing related to torque an hp curves, which differ of most cars I had. May be a new mapping can do wonders not for more hps but for a more steady torque curve! but I think the the mpg will suffer a lot hahaha.. but we want every thing!!!

Havefun!!!
 
laufer said:
Thanks all for the reply's!!!!
The car is now over 600kms and I'am little bit more used to it, also feel the engine a bit more round all together, so very happy with the little machine ;D

My dealer also told me that no breaking had to be done, but not because had some special parameters loaded for first kms or eco mode running, only because it already had the breaking done the factory.

The voids I'm sure its some thing related to torque an hp curves, which differ of most cars I had. May be a new mapping can do wonders not for more hps but for a more steady torque curve! but I think the the mpg will suffer a lot hahaha.. but we want every thing!!!

Havefun!!!
Click to expand...
85 version has the steady torque curve. 105 is more peaky.
 
AGH1965 said:
Two different FIAT dealers told me that FIAT deliberately manipulates this process, when I asked them if there were any things I should pay attention to during the break-in or run-in of a new TwinAir engine. Both told me that I didn't have to bother and just had to drive as if the engine wasn't new, since FIAT implemented a smart automatically disappearing performance restriction in the TwinAir engine. At first I didn't believe this, but now I think it's true. Why? Two reasons:

  1. A brand new TwinAir feels rather slow when you floor the accelerator pedal. The missing performance seems much larger than one should expect from some additional friction and some additional internal leakage of a new engine.
Click to expand...

If it's a software limit, then it wouldn't explain the terrible fuel consumption for the first number of tanks. I only got ~30mpg from my first tank and am up to 60 with my last (~8000km). I'd say there must be a LOT of internal friction on a new TA to account for that much fuel use. I'll see if I can come up with some numbers later to quantify how much power must be 'robbed' to kill MPG by that much.
 
AGH1965 said:
The first time I noticed that the TwinAir in my current 500 was awakening, was also the first time I heard its loud TwinAir "growl", as if the "beast" was finally unleashed. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the odometer reading at that moment, but I think it was already beyond 1000 km.
Click to expand...

To me my TA85 drives the same now (at ~3500 km) as it did the day I bought it, brand new. The power was there from the start -- the only felt difference is that the Dualogic no longer jolts as much when changing gears now :D

Maybe it's different in Europe, but AFAIK Australia gets basically the UK version with very few modifications.
 
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