Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

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Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Hi,
I have a fiat 500 convertible, 2014 located in Australia. End of last year I was advised my the fiat launceston mechanic I needed a new gear box as the reason for the high pitch sound on accerlation. The quote was 11k at the fiat mechanic in Launceston. I elected to source a second hand gear box from a wreckers. I provided a wreckers with my vin/rego number, and they sent a gearbox to the mechanic in Launceston. The gearbox arrived at the fiat mechanic 2 weeks before my car was scheduled to have the gearbox replaced and therefore I asked them to check the gearbox I sourced was going to be suitable for my car. They advised yes.
Forntight later, I drop my car off to have the gearbox replaced, I get a call the next day saying they have taken my gear box out, only to find the one from the wreckers ( that I had asked them to check when it arrived to them 2 weeks prior) is incorrect for my car. And therefore I could leave my car in parts whilst I wait for them to order the new one ( up to 10buisness days) or I can pay an additional 2k ontop of the 11k quote to have them put it back together with original gearbox, whilst awaiting the new one to arrive. Obviously I elected to leave it dismantled, however this was extremely inconvenient as it left me without a car for 3 weeks, having to find transport between the mechanic and my place of residence 100km away and the cost of a hotel in Launceston given they had initially said it would take 2 days to for repairs.
The fiat mechanic sent me pictures of my gear box and the incorrect one ( incorrect one is the brown crate), I noted serial numbers/codes on each in the pictures.
I questioned the mechanic as to why they needed to have my original gearbox removed, sitting next to the wreckers one to then only be able to tell they where incorrect.
Surely, when I requested 2 weeks prior to check the gearbox I organised was correct, they could have used the serial number on this gear box( which I can see in the picture) and the details of my car to check online it was a match? Or at the very least, checked the gear box/codes of each matched the morning of repairs, before pulling my gearbox out? And when I questioned the Launceston mechanic ( who is a registered fiat mechanic/dealer) on this, he said no such system exist. And when I asked well how he does order me a new one as that surely comes with a code. He replied they call fiat on mainland, tell them my car make and get a gear box sent, no serial number or gearbox codes are exchanged ( I.e I Smell bullshit) .
They ultimately left me with no choice but to get them to source a new one( 11k) and leave me without a car for over 2 weeks whilst waiting on the new one unless I wanted to fork out another 2k, when they really shouldn't have had to take my car apart to get to that conclusion they didn't match?
 

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Hello and a very warm welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your problem - but well done for finding the right place to post about it.

They ultimately left me with no choice but to get them to source a new one( 11k)
Ouch! I'd have found that somewhat painful.

Is a 10 yr old 500 even worth 11k?

That's close on £6000 sterling.

I'd have thought scrapping the car would have been a cheaper option.

This sums up the problem in a nutshell. Dualogic transmissions generally don't last the life of the rest of the car, and when they do fail, the repair often costs more than the car's worth at that point, leaving their owners with a nasty dilemma.
 
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Agreed. When I was sourcing a second hand gear box it would have only cost me 5k in total, which was okay. As I also couldn't sell it cause it was so noisy.

But am I correct in that they could have checked the number on the one I sourced from wreckers, and determined it wouldn't have fit my car before pulling it apart and therefore forcing my hand to spend the 11k. As if I had been told the wrecker one was incorrect, I wouldn't have pursued the 11k repair and just wrote off the car
 
Hi, I seem to be having similar issues to Adrian above with relatable fault codes on my wife’s Fiat. “Check transmission” warning pops up intermittently but car drives on without issues. It has appeared probably about 10 times in the last 4 months, car is driven daily. The mechanic whip ran a diagnostic today cleared the codes and checked over the transmission what he could but then the warning popped up twice on the way home. Does anyone know of a dualogic specialist in the North Lincs Area? I know Stoneacre in Scunny are the local FIAT dealers but are pricey. Model is a low 30k mileage 2015 Fiat 500 Lounge Auto. Reading through the thread has put me on edge given some of the costs I have seen banded about. Seemd quite a few people seem to suggest getting rid once this type of issue starts. Thanks in advance.
 

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Hi, I seem to be having similar issues to Adrian above with relatable fault codes on my wife’s Fiat.
Hello and a very warm welcome to the forum.

You've found the right thread to post about this, and if you read through it, you'll find what's pretty much the collective experience of this forum.

40k is on the low side to be having issues mileage wise (though we've seen even less), but 9yrs old is spot on for the age when these transmissions often start to give trouble.

There are numerous seals in the dualogic part of the transmission which both deteriorate due to age and wear due to mileage.

Generally I've advised folks to just chop these cars in at the first sign of trouble, but if you've an otherwise excellent, loved 9yr old low mileage car, an actuator strip followed by a recalibration, with possibly a new clutch, might be worth considering. There are a few specialist garages able to do this; one of which is in Stoke on Trent. I'd expect this to cost a little under £1000 all in.

I'm not sure it's worth taking it to a franchised dealer; they would likely advise replacing major components at a cost of several thousand pounds, and will charge you several hundred pounds just to tell you that.
 
My daughter has a 2013 Fiat 500 (120km) which is having transmission issues, we have taken to two different mechanics (a transmission mechanic and a FIAT dealership) who have both stated that there is an issue with the Gearbox Actuator. They have quoted a high amount to fix (almost more than the car $8-9k). I have found some 2nd hand Gearbox Actuators for between $1,200 and $1,700 (Aus) with 70km and 40km respectively on them. I have two queries:

1) Is the car worth fixing (exterior is in great condition), more worried about it happening again given the km's on the 2nd hand ones.
2) The dealership has called the part we need a Sele Speed Assembly (part 55283535) whilst the Quote I have been provided calls it an Actuator Dualogic Gearbox Control Module/Actuator. Are these one in the same?

Relying on all the FIAT experts.

Rob
 
Is the car worth fixing (exterior is in great condition)
In my opinion, no.

Just sell it as it is, put whatever you get for it toward something better.

Reading through this thread will help explain why I'm suggesting this.
more worried about it happening again given the km's on the 2nd hand ones.
I'd be worried about that even if it were fixed using new parts.
I have found some 2nd hand Gearbox Actuators for between $1,200 and $1,700 (Aus) with 70km and 40km respectively on them.
The collective experience of the forum is that these actuators start failing after about 75000 km.

So, statistically, one is about half worn out, and one is close to failure.

If you use secondhand parts, I doubt you'll get a warranty on the repair. You might get a warranty of sorts on the parts, but that's unlikely to cover the labour cost of doing the job twice.

I'm sorry I can't be more optimistic for you, but realistically there are few easy options, and even the difficult ones are located halfway round the world from your car.

I'd like to think that, going forward, we can do better than this, and come up with a practical way for folks to have these actuators rebuilt using new seals. I've started a separate thread for success stories in having these transmissions repaired, but thus far, nobody has posted anything in it.
 
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Hi,
I have a 2014 Fiat 500 semi automatic which has done around 49,000 miles.
I was having issues with the gears not changing, gear being stuck in N, randomly going into N whilst driving etc but found driving in manual stopped this happening but unfortunately this only seemed to mask the issue for a few months.
The issues reoccurred showing ‘check transmission’ on the dash and the car staying in N and none stop issues with the gears not working as they should.
The error code that was coming up was P1741-1C - Gear position sensor, Circuit voltage out of range.
I found out that the hydraulic fluid levels were extremely low and once this was topped up the error code seemed to clear and the car had since been driving fine (this lasted for around a week).

Today whilst driving the car it wouldn’t go past 2nd gear and took some time to get it going again. It has been run on the scanner and the error codes coming up now are:

P2916-07 - fault on gearbox subsystem (unexpected gear disengage), mechanical failures
P2915-72 - fault on gearbox subsystem (engage failed), actuator stuck open

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Hello and welcome to the forum - and congratulations for finding the right place to post about your problem.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
It's basically all been said already in this thread.
I found out that the hydraulic fluid levels were extremely low
If the hydraulic fluid is substantially lower than it should be, it means something is leaking, likely one or more seals somewhere. It'll be almost impossible to identify the source of the leak and even harder to do some sort of spot repair.

Topping it up isn't fixing anything, and as you've discovered, any return of functionality normally only lasts a week or two before the problem returns. Likely culprits are the accumulator, the actuator, or both.

The official fix for these sort of problems is to replace the affected assemblies complete; on a 10yr old 500, this will cost more than the car's worth.

Another possible option is to have the affected parts rebuilt with new seals; there are only a handful of places known to be able to do this but there is one in Stoke on Trent.

Many folks just cut their losses and sell the car for the best price they can get.

From everything that's been posted here, it's possible that the economic working life of a dualogic 500 may be as little as 10yrs/50000 miles.
 
The actuator needs a refurb. It's just a running expense that crops up once a decade on the Dualogics. The "place in Stoke on Trent" is CD Motors (on Facebook as CD Motors Staffordshire). Refurb there is GBP600 if it is delivered to them (they will also fix cars on the premises), and a mechanic (if needed) should charge about GBP300 for remove and refit (I know as I do it! Sadly a bit far from you).

So despite the doom on this thread, there is another way. Albeit the people involved are indeed a bit thin on the ground (and lead times can be long).
 
The actuator needs a refurb. It's just a running expense that crops up once a decade on the Dualogics. The "place in Stoke on Trent" is CD Motors (on Facebook as CD Motors Staffordshire). Refurb there is GBP600 if it is delivered to them (they will also fix cars on the premises), and a mechanic (if needed) should charge about GBP300 for remove and refit (I know as I do it! Sadly a bit far from you).

So despite the doom on this thread, there is another way. Albeit the people involved are indeed a bit thin on the ground (and lead times can be long).
+ The question remains do you really want to put another grand into a 3 maybe 4 grand car ,and then fret and worry about whats going to go wrong next and how much its going to cost you!!?? It is what its worth to you really,- people form an emotional bond with cars and other material things that often distorts there objectivity about when its time to cut and run! 🤔.
I have to say that these duologics do seem a bit more trouble than there worth going by all the many issues we see on the forums, especially if they dont have an absolutely flawless service history!
 
I won't deny the Dualogics have their issues. But time to any failure is measured in years and it is all fixable. The issue is that the knowledge hasn't permeated out from the factory - not even to the main dealers who just can't be bothered (criminally so if you ask me).

As to values - the value of a car in these situations is a very personal thing. If someone values their car more than the market, I for one won't question that. If people didn't we wouldn't have any classic cars left - and no-one would restore them :)
 
I have solved the problem of dropping from 5th to N myself, it took long time so I'll share what I know.
Off course, first make sure that you have the correct oil level and the pump builds pressure as it should. Then It's a fairly easy fix !
The main culprit, withe other things being fully operational, is so called "stop" solenoid. It changes the movement of gear selector shaft between 1-2 , 3-4 and R-N planes.
View attachment 418031
After you unscrew it, there is a spring loaded nipple which, when activated, protrudes into the barrel behind it to generally block the internal plane seletion barrel :
View attachment 418032
The problem is that the internal mechanism is oiled and greased, over time gunk gets under the nipple and further into the solenoid, causing it to stick. The spring is not strong enough to push back the solenoid shaft quickly, this is why sometimes people cannot engage any gear for a couple of minutes after dropping to N -it needs time. The lower the outside temp, the more likely this can happen - greasy gunk being thicker.

option 1 - quick fix - It should be possible to reach and unscrew the solenoid - 500 offers less space than my Lancia Musa , but it should be possible after removin battery holder plate. Put some foil beneath so as not to drop screws, spring and nipple. Put the car in N first. Screws are phillips , there is no pressure in this part of robot. Tighten back with care.
Clean the solenoid by slowly spraying something like WD40, then brake cleaner, rubbing alcohol etc over the little shaft, let them drop sink inside. Do it many times in turns until the shaft moves fairly freely. The liquids will drain through plug assembly. Apply brake cleaner as final, give time it to evaporate, you can even heat it up to make sure it's dry inside. At first, you might need to use a 9v battery with two cables to pop the shaft back out.Don't worry about polarity. New solenoid is pricey and there is no need to change it if it works.
While solenoid is out, also clean the nipple socket in the barrel from any old grease to prevent it from sticking.

View attachment 418033
View attachment 418034

Option 2 : Full, long term fix is to take the robot out and clean the whole "barrel" inside and then re-grease it with high quality, wide-temperature-graded synthetic grease . You can see this being done here:

screenshot:
View attachment 418035

Option 2 best made by a mechanic, unless you really know what you are doing, followed by factory calibration in MES

Of course, there might be some other underlying issues. Then it needs to be properly diagnosed and possibly overhauled.Find a mechanic whoe deals with dualogic.
Hope that Helps.

I have actually done a complete overhaul of the robot myself, it is quite a durable and bulletproof device with just a few soft-spots. It requires all components to work properly, with very little margin for error and then it will serve years on.

Thanks for sharing option 1. It solved my problem. My Fiat 500 from 2012 with 190.000 km started to show troubles recently when downshifting from 5 to 3 when the automatic and engine was cold. It always went into neutral and I was only able to go further after 30 minutes or even longer. After doing option 1 the dualogic drives as new. Hopefully it will last some time before it will break down completely or the problem will reappear.
 
@ET Alien , @FiatTwinair

Great!

This is our first meaningful success story in 41 pages of posts.

It's something which can be done by the mechanically competent that will offer at least a glimmer of hope to dualogic owners who have the misfortune to find themselves joining this thread.
 
@ET Alien , @FiatTwinair

Great!

This is our first meaningful success story in 41 pages of posts.

It's something which can be done by the mechanically competent that will offer at least a glimmer of hope to dualogic owners who have the misfortune to find themselves joining this thread.
Agreed! nice to see something positive for a change isnt it! good luck to all that try the procedure!. (y)
 
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