Hello!

This is my first post as I have just entered the world of Fiat 500. I have long been a fan of Italian motor cars having my first foray with a Lancia many years ago. I am also a very enthusiastic Alfa driver. I have for some time harbored a wish for a family fun car in the guise of a Fiat 500.

That wish became a reality a few days ago when I purchased a lovely white 500 Lounge with panoramic roof and full leather. Just 27,000 miles on the clock its a car we can hopefully keep within the family for many years.

Just one question though. There appears to be a severe loss of power when trying to pull up a hill. If you can keep the speed on going into the hill, it seems to be okay. If you lose the speed, or heaven forbid start on the hill, there is no pulling power at all - everybody behind gets frustrated and over-takes.

I know its a relatively small engine, without the torque of a diesel, but is this right? I would have thought it would have the ability to pull up a hill! It was purchased from a dealer (Vauxhall admittedly) with full history and so nothing to indicate any problems.

Any ideas? Many thanks

Doesn't sound right - all engines in the range should cope fine with hills unless particularly heavily laden. What engine is in yours?

MarginWalker said:

Doesn't sound right - all engines in the range should cope fine with hills unless particularly heavily laden. What engine is in yours?

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In fairness, if you floor the 1.2's loud pedal when going up a steep hill in 5th, it's not going to do a lot - you will likely need to downshift if you want to ascend and accelerate at the same time. Temporarily turning off the A/C may also improve hill climbing performance.

I suppose there is about 20 lb.ft difference in torque output between my 1.4 and the 1.2. On motorway hills I rarely need to drop to 5th or 4th. Perhaps the OP has a 1.2 and just needs to adapt his/her driving style to suit an engine with less torque than previously owned cars. By all accounts the 1.2 has enough power for most situations though.

Depends on the size of the hill really. There's a hill here that I can only take in 1st, 2nd if I get a good runup

Thanks all. I have the 1.2 engine. I'm still getting used to it, and I think (hope) its just a case of adapting the driving style. We are used to large diesel engines in this family and they have so much torque the gears are rarely used once cruising, even for hills! I've just got back from a 30 min drive and its a delight on the open road and around towns. Used the gears a bit more on the hills and it seemed better.

So I will stick with it for now and hope its just a case of adapting my driving style before I go rushing back to the dealers.

Any competent driver should know it is required to down shift on hills. Don't labour the engine on higher gears. Down shift and off you go.

If you look at 'Throttle response', Flat Spot', and 'New Yesterday' (these are either under 500 or Panda) you will see that others are having problems. Our 1.2 Panda is dreadful for city driving and hill starts, it has no torque until you get to the high rev bands. I think that if I put a trailer on the back it would be hopeless trying to drive it. In the Panda section, under 'Flat spot' you will find the graph of a comparison of an 09 1.2 Panda with the new equivalent. You will see that the old version will be streets ahead at anything below the legal speed limit.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz please stop spamming everyone's threads and making everyone think they've got a problem.

David Bliss said:

If you look at 'Throttle response', Flat Spot', and 'New Yesterday' (these are either under 500 or Panda) you will see that others are having problems. Our 1.2 Panda is dreadful for city driving and hill starts, it has no torque until you get to the high rev bands. I think that if I put a trailer on the back it would be hopeless trying to drive it. In the Panda section, under 'Flat spot' you will find the graph of a comparison of an 09 1.2 Panda with the new equivalent. You will see that the old version will be streets ahead at anything below the legal speed limit.

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David, the issues you are having are only being reported by folks with the very latest 1.2 500/Pandas; there's no evidence on this forum that there's any kind of problem with the earlier cars. The 69hp vvt engine has been fitted to the 500 since launch and the flat spot issue you are experiencing hasn't been reported for any car made prior to 2014.

Your rolling road graphs only show the 60hp Euro4 engine and the latest incantation of the 69hp vvt engine; we simply don't have a comparative rolling road graph that's relevant to the vast majority of the 1.2 500's (though as I said at the time, it'd be interesting to compare your current 1.2 to one of the older 69hp vvt cars).

I've already said it's not helpful for folks with older cars to dismiss your problem, but it's equally unhelpful for you to use those rolling road results to imply that all 500's suffer from this. It's true that, in real life, the 69hp vvt is a little less flexible than the 60hp engine, but we're talking the difference between being able to pull away cleanly in 5th at 28mph in the 500, and 26mph in the Panda. I'm already on record for saying I think the 60hp engine is slightly more flexible and thus a bit better engine for real world everyday driving (and I've been driving both daily for 4yrs now), but the differences are tiny and the 60hp engine has never been available in the 500 anyway.

I'm not questioning that the issue you and other very recent purchasers are experiencing isn't real, but please don't assume that all 1.2 500's suffer from this problem - they don't.

I didn't know that the 1.2 8v is vvt?? Is this true? I have the 2013 500 pop (Australian)

it is vvt

In my TA in Eco mode a significant hill is a bit of a challenge, but in normal it just pulls up, I've driven a 1.2 on test and I had a 1.6 tried Ibiza before so I think it's a case of learning your engine!

In a petrol engine you can let it rev a bit mate. Diesel engines are beautiful the way they continue up a hill but definitely just down gear a shift or two as required and you will be fine.

Think Italian - treat the throttle as an on/off switch and you will be fine. This is all I've ever done with small Fiats be it a Nuova 500 or Panda.
It just happens to be good fun....if a little noisy.

kilojuliet said:

In my TA in Eco mode a significant hill is a bit of a challenge, but in normal it just pulls up, I've driven a 1.2 on test and I had a 1.6 tried Ibiza before so I think it's a case of learning your engine!

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the TA is a completely different engine character to a normally aspirated 4 cylinder..,
however , once run-in fully, they are pretty pokey.. once "on the cam"..!!

charlie

mkn777er said:

Thanks all. I have the 1.2 engine. I'm still getting used to it, and I think (hope) its just a case of adapting the driving style. We are used to large diesel engines in this family and they have so much torque the gears are rarely used once cruising, even for hills! I've just got back from a 30 min drive and its a delight on the open road and around towns. Used the gears a bit more on the hills and it seemed better.

So I will stick with it for now and hope its just a case of adapting my driving style before I go rushing back to the dealers.

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Hi There

Does yours have the little arrows on the dash that light up to indicate when a change up or down would be beneficial to the engine? Mine was an early one so doesn't but I know the later ones do have this. If your labouring up a hill and have this it should indicate when a change down is necessary.

Cheers C.

The 1.2 is a great engine. It's good fun because you need to drive it. Use the gears and give it a little wellie. It comes alive.

Just remember that it is 69bhp. Fun. Capable. But not overly fast....

My 58 plate 1.2 can only take the hill on dual carriageway to work if I get a good speed on the run up and even then it drops down about 10-15mph. I find a change down to 4th helps to maintain speed or get into the inside lane as I gradually slow down!

If someone pulls out in front of me I don't stand a chance of getting up the hill in 5th at a reasonable speed and struggle in 4th sometimes in the fast lane

Heidi said:

If someone pulls out in front of me I don't stand a chance of getting up the hill in 5th at a reasonable speed and struggle in 4th sometimes in the fast lane

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In my TwinAir 500, I can take a decent incline in 4th if I have a good run-up first. But it slows down for sure, and I can watch the fuel Instant Consumption figures shoot up instantly. 5th gear, forget about it, not gonna happen.

I always drop to 3rd gear if I want to maintain any kind of decent speed -- this is in non-eco mode.

Eco mode on the TwinAir drops the amount of torque available as well, so it's strictly for level highway driving, not hills or decent gradients.

Let's face it, these little city cars are not meant to be driven up hills in 5th gear or higher