OR....it could even be a typography error !!
General fiat 500 oil type
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General fiat 500 oil type
Doubt it, I'm picking up my TA tomorrow which is a very recent build so I'll see what's in the manual and report back
Take into account though, that your new car may be older than you realise unless of course you already know the actual build date of the car. Might be worth asking your dealer when you pick it up what the actual assignment date or build date of your car is. Either way, if you follow my earlier post and put your VIN in the Fiat system, it'll throw up the owner manual applicable to your car anyway.
Thanks I'll check it out. The car was built to my spec and ordered early December, I was told it was scheduled for build 1st week in jan so I'm presuming it's a 2014 car, got here very quickly all the same, all will be revealed tomorrow!
Hopefully, you will be in receipt of the new car by now and enjoying it. I'm quite surprised if you have received a car from build to ownership in just over 3 weeks if the actual car build commenced 1st week in January and 7 weeks from ordering, that's pretty good going if you ask me.
Ok, I'll chime in with my take on this.
The basic difference between 0W30 and 5W40 is that the former is thinner at all temperatures.
The main benefit of using a thinner oil is reduced engine friction, so thinner oil equates to better mpg and lower emissions. Those who remember the history of the Mk3 Panda will know that FIAT reduced the 'official' CO2 figures by around 20% to get the later cars into the £30 tax band, essentially by doing just two things; using a thinner oil & fitting narrow ecotyres.
So a thinner oil means lower emissions & better mpg, both of which are good, but there's another consideration & that's engine wear.
Thinner oils are less effective under load, particularly under high pressure loadings (which is why the components of the car that are subject to the highest point stresses, the gearbox & differential, use much thicker oils). Also, thinner oils reduce oil pressure, which can be compensated for by reducing manufacturing tolerances &/or increasing oil pump capacity.
I should also mention that thinner oils circulate better when the engine is cold, but run off bearing surfaces faster when the engine is stopped.
So FIAT's move to 0W30 is almost certainly motivated by a desire to reduce emissions for Euro6. Have they also increased oil pump output or changed bearing tolerances? Who knows.
Manufacturers often make changes to manufacturing tolerances and specifications without making a big public announcement of the fact. Using the wrong specification of oil for your car without good reason when they know what they've done and you don't would seem to me to be rather foolish.
That said, I've given some thought to running a very lightly driven 1.2 on 0W30 in the winter when the benefits of better cold circulating performance and reduced friction might outweigh the disadvantage of the reduced lubrication protection of the thinner oil. But I've only thought about it and haven't tried it yet.
The one place I'd definitely not use a thinner oil than that specified is in a car driven hard in a hot climate. If you're Ahmett and you think this comment may be aimed at you, you just might be right
.
I'll make one prediction, though; now the TA fleet of otherwise identical cars have different recommended oil specs depending on the date of manufacture, there are going to be a lot of cars which are serviced using the 'wrong' grade of oil.
The basic difference between 0W30 and 5W40 is that the former is thinner at all temperatures.
The main benefit of using a thinner oil is reduced engine friction, so thinner oil equates to better mpg and lower emissions. Those who remember the history of the Mk3 Panda will know that FIAT reduced the 'official' CO2 figures by around 20% to get the later cars into the £30 tax band, essentially by doing just two things; using a thinner oil & fitting narrow ecotyres.
So a thinner oil means lower emissions & better mpg, both of which are good, but there's another consideration & that's engine wear.
Thinner oils are less effective under load, particularly under high pressure loadings (which is why the components of the car that are subject to the highest point stresses, the gearbox & differential, use much thicker oils). Also, thinner oils reduce oil pressure, which can be compensated for by reducing manufacturing tolerances &/or increasing oil pump capacity.
I should also mention that thinner oils circulate better when the engine is cold, but run off bearing surfaces faster when the engine is stopped.
So FIAT's move to 0W30 is almost certainly motivated by a desire to reduce emissions for Euro6. Have they also increased oil pump output or changed bearing tolerances? Who knows.
Manufacturers often make changes to manufacturing tolerances and specifications without making a big public announcement of the fact. Using the wrong specification of oil for your car without good reason when they know what they've done and you don't would seem to me to be rather foolish.
That said, I've given some thought to running a very lightly driven 1.2 on 0W30 in the winter when the benefits of better cold circulating performance and reduced friction might outweigh the disadvantage of the reduced lubrication protection of the thinner oil. But I've only thought about it and haven't tried it yet.
The one place I'd definitely not use a thinner oil than that specified is in a car driven hard in a hot climate. If you're Ahmett and you think this comment may be aimed at you, you just might be right
.I'll make one prediction, though; now the TA fleet of otherwise identical cars have different recommended oil specs depending on the date of manufacture, there are going to be a lot of cars which are serviced using the 'wrong' grade of oil.
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ahmett
Prominent member
Thank god! I was waiting for a comment from an expert. Now one comment from bgunn and we are in the money!Ok, I'll chime in with my take on this.
The basic difference between 0W30 and 5W40 is that the former is thinner at all temperatures.
The main benefit of using a thinner oil is reduced engine friction, so thinner oil equates to better mpg and lower emissions. Those who remember the history of the Mk3 Panda will know that FIAT reduced the 'official' CO2 figures by around 20% to get the later cars into the £30 tax band, essentially by doing just two things; using a thinner oil & fitting narrow ecotyres.
So a thinner oil means lower emissions & better mpg, both of which are good, but there's another consideration & that's engine wear.
Thinner oils are less effective under load, particularly under high pressure loadings (which is why the components of the car that are subject to the highest point stresses, the gearbox & differential, use much thicker oils). Also, thinner oils reduce oil pressure, which can be compensated for by reducing manufacturing tolerances &/or increasing oil pump capacity.
I should also mention that thinner oils circulate better when the engine is cold, but run off bearing surfaces faster when the engine is stopped.
So FIAT's move to 0W30 is almost certainly motivated by a desire to reduce emissions for Euro6. Have they also increased oil pump output or changed bearing tolerances? Who knows.
Manufacturers often make changes to manufacturing tolerances and specifications without making a big public announcement of the fact. Using the wrong specification of oil for your car without good reason when they know what they've done and you don't would seem to me to be rather foolish.
That said, I've given some thought to running a very lightly driven 1.2 on 0W30 in the winter when the benefits of better cold circulating performance and reduced friction might outweigh the disadvantage of the reduced lubrication protection of the thinner oil. But I've only thought about it and haven't tried it yet.
The one place I'd definitely not use a thinner oil than that specified is in a car driven hard in a hot climate. If you're Ahmett and you think this comment may be aimed at you, you just might be right
I'll make one prediction, though; now the TA fleet of otherwise identical cars have different recommended oil specs depending on the date of manufacture, there are going to be a lot of cars which are serviced using the 'wrong' grade of oil.
I think you are right jrkitching, for euro 6 they went 0w-30 for the lower emissions. Do you agree with my theory that thinner oils are better for turbo cars or is that rubbish?
Yes I am sticking with 5w40 for sure!
And changing oil halfway through the TA's selling life means a lot of confusion and mixups for sure! Funny though I was looking at the Mini Cooper S drivers manual, and they were saying you can use the 0w-30, 5w-30, 0w-40 and 5w-40 depending on your type of driving and all 4 specs are covered under warranty! What do you have to say about that?
I'd say it shows some right thinking on the part of the manufacturer, as it gives you the ability to choose the specification of oil that best suits your style of driving & prevailing climate without sacrificing your warranty.
Generally speaking, higher viscosity oils offer better protection but use more fuel.
If you're serious about protecting your engine, changing it more frequently is what you really should be worrying about. Whatever the original spec, who knows what its spec & performance will be after 18,000 miles? Change it twice as often as recommended, and it will, on average, have only a quarter of the contamination & degradation - think about it.
As for turbo cars, driving with due consideration (driving gently when cold and idling for a few minutes before switching off) is IMO more important than a grade either way on oil spec. And on that note, I'm not a fan of using S/S on turbo cars.
What's happened to the old 500 section? Everyone's having a logical discussion here ATM
I'm glad you've risen this as I've been thinking similar ever since having the 1.2 500 with SS for 2 months back in the summer. With the TwinAir does SS kick in instantly like on the 1.2 when you've reached the end of an off ramp after having just been sat at 70mph? If so those turbos must be taking an absolute hammering? Like wise bombing through town enthusiastically and stopping at some red lights and it kicking in. I take it the twin air oil pumps are mechanical like the 1.2's and not electric?
I'm glad you've risen this as I've been thinking similar ever since having the 1.2 500 with SS for 2 months back in the summer. With the TwinAir does SS kick in instantly like on the 1.2 when you've reached the end of an off ramp after having just been sat at 70mph? If so those turbos must be taking an absolute hammering? Like wise bombing through town enthusiastically and stopping at some red lights and it kicking in. I take it the twin air oil pumps are mechanical like the 1.2's and not electric?
Ok so I picked up the TA today, I've just opened the manual wallet and found a Ta 65hp booklet inside along with the normal manual & disc!!! Have I been sold a 65??? It drives fine but difficult to tell poke wise as it's so new and tight. I dident think the 65 was available in the UK or Ireland yet?? How can I tell what it is for sure? The 65 has no turbo right? Maybe they just stick the 65 book in the wallet anyway?
edit: so I've just gone out in the dark and lifted the bonnet and it does say 'turbo' on the engine cover so presumably i'm just being paranoid, I checked the configurator too and no mention of 65hp engine.
So about the oil then...........I asked my dealer when I picked up the car today as to what the actual build date was and he confirmed it was week 51 so it was 2013 by a hair. The manual says oil should be 0W-30 ACEA C2 GRADE FIAT 9.55535-GS1 classification for 65, 85 and 105 TA engines. So to add to the confusion my car is 2013 but recommends 0W-30. I haven't got the VIN yet but should have it tomorrow so will check against the Fiat site and see what it has to say.
edit: so I've just gone out in the dark and lifted the bonnet and it does say 'turbo' on the engine cover so presumably i'm just being paranoid, I checked the configurator too and no mention of 65hp engine.
So about the oil then...........I asked my dealer when I picked up the car today as to what the actual build date was and he confirmed it was week 51 so it was 2013 by a hair. The manual says oil should be 0W-30 ACEA C2 GRADE FIAT 9.55535-GS1 classification for 65, 85 and 105 TA engines. So to add to the confusion my car is 2013 but recommends 0W-30. I haven't got the VIN yet but should have it tomorrow so will check against the Fiat site and see what it has to say.
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Yes, absolutely, make sure you thoroughly check the configurator with the car VIN and if necessary, check again with the dealer because if you do need to top up and you don' use the correct oil in respect of warranty, you risk being at the mercy of Fiat. Your situation sounds a little ridiculous, there shouldn't be any ambiguity in terms of the car's horsepower or the lubricant it is supposed to use. VIN code is on a plate on the boot floor, so you should have it anyway.
Ok so it's definitely an 85hp TA, driving it again today it's obvious, called out to the dealer today to collect reg docs and had a look in a new 1.2s, in the manual wallet was a booklet on the 65hp TA! Bizarre! They must go in to all the packs as standard! Anyway relief all round and the car has exceeded my expectations so really really pleased. I only have a chassis no on my docs - is this different to the VIN? Anyway it dident work on the fiat site so will check the boot floor for the vin and let you know.
Thanks, thought so. It doesent work on the fiat site though, perhaps cos its not a UK car. So I'm none the wiser as to what oil is actually in the car, presumably not a great idea to top up with 0W if it is 5W or vice versa. I guess the thing to do would be to do an early oil change at about 3K and then decide which oil is best for the car long term and refill and stick with that. Would I be right in thinking that 0W was used to gain Euro 6 classification but that 5W might be a better bet for the car long term? After all it is the oil that was in the engine from its inception so presumably they knew what they were doing? Mind you if my manual quotes 0W then perhaps that's what I should be using.
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I emailed the dealer in the end to ask them. Since the salesman had stated over the phone that I should put in what the manual advised (0W30 C2).
I wrote that I was confused and stated that there was a lot on conflicting info and that I didn't want my warranty at risk. Manual states one thing, Fiat iPhone app states another etc....
Anyhow, the head service technician got back to me and stated that only 5W40 C3 oil should be used in the TwinAir or MultiAir engines.
I wrote that I was confused and stated that there was a lot on conflicting info and that I didn't want my warranty at risk. Manual states one thing, Fiat iPhone app states another etc....
Anyhow, the head service technician got back to me and stated that only 5W40 C3 oil should be used in the TwinAir or MultiAir engines.
hmm, you're in the same position as me - that niggling doubt as to what actual oil is in the car? Can we safely assume 5W40 despite the manual?
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I honestly think if you are that concerned you should telephone Fiat Customer Services, or email them and ask for their Technical department, give them your VIN and get them to put you straight on the issue.
If you want to stick with your own dealers advice, I would absolutely recommend you get a written statement from them, signed by the dealership manager that what he has advised you is correct. Then, if it all goes horribly pear shaped later on, then you have some come back. I think also that it would be horrible if they serviced the car and put the wrong oil in and something went wrong. You need an absolute definitive answer to put your mind at rest.
ahmett
Prominent member
Guys you are acting like the service ppl know what they are saying! It seems like fiat made this change without informing anyone or anyone listening to fiat! Fact is they want 0w-30 on their new ta cars so use it! U think fiat are efficient enough to update their iphone app real time?
Anyway as jrkitching wisely said, this oil type change is going to create a lot of confusion!! So every man for himself use which oil you feel comfortable with and make sure you ask what type of oil was used so you top oil up with the same spec!
ahmet, I'm not entirely sure if you are deliberately misinterpreting my post or just don't understand what I've posted! Where have I insinuated that the service people know what they are talking about? I'm assuming you mean the dealership service people? Look at my post and read it again, I said either get a written statement from the dealership manager or more preferably contact Fiat customer service and ask to be put through to Fiat technical and get the authorative answer. I also think your glib statement of "So every man for himself use which oil you feel comfortable with" is a bit irresponsible when the car is new and under warranty. :bang:
At the end of the day, there appears to be some ambiguity surrounding what is in the manual, what the dealership is saying and what is posted elsewhere. I am happy with what is supposed to go in my own car and I won't be going against what the e-lum manual states for my own car.
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I have it in writing from the dealership! Also the car will be getting an oil change at 9000 miles - from the same dealership and I assume they will be putting in 5W40 C3 as this is what they state they use.
