Technical Brake Fade!!!!!!

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Technical Brake Fade!!!!!!

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For the first time this morning I suffered horrendous brake fade in the little 500 on the way to work. It was my own fault, I was driving way quicker than I normally do (even quicker than on the IOW Military Road last year) and the anchors simply could not cope, there was actually smoke coming from them.

Anyway, found these, was seriously considering them.
 
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For the first time this morning I suffered horrendous brake fade in the little 500 on the way to work. It was my own fault, I was driving way quicker than I normally do (even quicker than on the IOW Military Road last year) and the anchors simply could not cope, there was actually smoke coming from them.

Anyway, found these, was seriously considering them.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REAR-BREMBO-M...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5638a8e0fa these should fit as well. Personally I wouldn't go for drilled discs as they're just more likely to crack. Just me though.
 
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This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
i think that is a bit of an urban myth

i have run a variety of slotted, drilled and slotted/drilled discs over the years on a variety of cars and never had any cracking issues

a hole will also prevent a crack from growing further (y)
I think it's generally on cheaper discs. Apparently if the holes are drilled after the disc is cast then your risk cracking but if the holes are cast into the discs they should be fine. Urban myth or not still a scary thought ;)
 
I think it's generally on cheaper discs. Apparently if the holes are drilled after the disc is cast then your risk cracking but if the holes are cast into the discs they should be fine. Urban myth or not still a scary thought ;)


perhaps that's why i haven't had problems

certain things in life are fine 'cheap', like clothes or a snack

brakes and tyres are best 'expensive' imo (y)
 
Obviously pads would be done at same time as discs.

Need to find some decent pads though.

On a dside note, on every car I have owned when the discs need replacing I ghave always popped on drilled/grooved discs.
If you're replacing the discs and pads at the same time why not go for 1.4 or 1.4 t-jet brakes. Just a suggestion.
 
perhaps that's why i haven't had problems

certain things in life are fine 'cheap', like clothes or a snack

brakes and tyres are best 'expensive' imo (y)
Ditto. I'm certainly thinking of getting better brakes when things are getting worn. I'd quite like to get rid of the silly looking drums on the rear
 
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I know :) It was just a joke. I've never come anywhere close to brake fade on the road :)

I've never had it in the 500, as I don't see it as the sort of car to be pushed to the limits, but have experienced it many times on the mountain roads around here in other vehicles. I guess there's an upside to that skippy rear axle after all!
 
it's the pads you really need upgrading (y)
I've just spoken with my Ferodo distributor and there is a listing for Ferodo DS2500 (Fast Road) pads for the Fiat 500 1.4 16V and 1.4 Abarth

He's looking into the 1.2 for me as it isnt listed.

Should have prices back tomorrow or Thursday :D :D :D

(I use the DS2500 pads on the VXR and they are absolutely fantastic)
 
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I've not had brake fade on the 500 yet, but I did get it on my old car once and had to stuff it into a hedge to stop. It's my own fault, I was chasing a chav in a Saxo down an empty hill road in my Metro. He couldn't shake me until we got to a hairpin when my brakes faded and I had to abandon the road a bit :ROFLMAO:

*Waits for the careful driving brigade to show up*
 
Back to topic - have you found that harder brake materials cause more screeching at slower speeds, as used to be the case, or have materials improved?
 
So, anyway, back on topic. I've been thinking about running some ducting to my brakes. I don't have the fog lights but I'm thinking I might order a set of the fog light surrounds in the lower front bumper from a Fiat dealer. If I'm not mistaken these are about 3" diameter. Behind these I'm thinking of setting a 3" collar on the back. I haven't worked out how yet, if it's possible then probably some high strength glue of some description and a couple of few inch long lengths of PVC plastic pipe. Just a collar for the high temp flexi hose to be jubilee clamped to. Then run a high temp flex hose, cable tied along the chassis rail or whatever gets me closest the suspension then across a suspension arm with the end of the flexi blowing on the brakes. I think I'll need a mesh cover as well for the fronts to stop it sucking stuff into my brakes. I figure some black fine mesh shaped and trimmed over the top of a capped 3" piece of pipe and pushed into the holes from the front.

Some highly amateurish maths seems to indicate that I can expect about 100cfm of air velocity at about 70mph for a 3" opening. To put that into perspective a decent hoover will manage about 60-70 cubic feet per minute. So imagine your hoover on steroids blowing cool air on to your brakes all the time.

I've heard anecdotal evidence to suggest this dramatically improves the life of brake discs. In club level racing people have reported up a 6x increase in disc life.

So, I reckon the fog lamp surrounds and black metal mesh to make it look nice and professional. The mysteries here for me are a couple:

- Do I try to duct the air to the centre of the disc as much as possible? Conversations with a formula ford chassis designer seem to suggest this is the best course of action. But that's largely formula ford experience I'd imagine. I've seen evidence that big heavy saloon cars vent the whole 3" directly on to a section of the disc and rely on the natural rotation of the wheel to rotate the disc and disperse this cold air feed across the disc. Anyone have any first hand experience of this they can comment on?

- What fastener methods? At the disc end this could possibly be achieved by an alloy bracket that's bolted through via some other components bolt. Fasteners to keep the pipe in place would be stainless steel. It's not easily corroded and they're cheap.

- What to do at the back of the fog light surrounds to attach hose. At the front of the car the whole collar and assembly there will depend on what the back of the fog light blanks look like. I need to see some first to get an idea of the best approach. I may be able to fabricate an alloy collar or they may have a lip already as part of the fog light surround and I can just hollow out the back. That'd be nice.

- Hose choice and routing. The choice is easy, plenty of high temp flex hose out there. The routing not so much. I haven't really pulled off enough covers to get a better picture. Chassis rails are a possibility. I'm guessing at some point I'm going to need to punch a whole in the arch liners to route the hose out to the hub/brake assembly. Hmm. I need to jack it up and have a fiddle I think.

So anyway, can anyone offer my a valid reason why this is a good/bad/insane idea?


Edit: For those having trouble visualizing this ranting, this is sort of what I'm thinking:

774278422_qzhwk-M.jpg
 
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So, anyway, back on topic. I've been thinking about running some ducting to my brakes. I don't have the fog lights but I'm thinking I might order a set of the fog light surrounds in the lower front bumper from a Fiat dealer. If I'm not mistaken these are about 3" diameter. Behind these I'm thinking of setting a 3" collar on the back. I haven't worked out how yet, if it's possible then probably some high strength glue of some description and a couple of few inch long lengths of PVC plastic pipe. Just a collar for the high temp flexi hose to be jubilee clamped to. Then run a high temp flex hose, cable tied along the chassis rail or whatever gets me closest the suspension then across a suspension arm with the end of the flexi blowing on the brakes. I think I'll need a mesh cover as well for the fronts to stop it sucking stuff into my brakes. I figure some black fine mesh shaped and trimmed over the top of a capped 3" piece of pipe and pushed into the holes from the front.

Some highly amateurish maths seems to indicate that I can expect about 100cfm of air velocity at about 70mph for a 3" opening. To put that into perspective a decent hoover will manage about 60-70 cubic feet per minute. So imagine your hoover on steroids blowing cool air on to your brakes all the time.

I've heard anecdotal evidence to suggest this dramatically improves the life of brake discs. In club level racing people have reported up a 6x increase in disc life.

So, I reckon the fog lamp surrounds and black metal mesh to make it look nice and professional. The mysteries here for me are a couple:

- Do I try to duct the air to the centre of the disc as much as possible? Conversations with a formula ford chassis designer seem to suggest this is the best course of action. But that's largely formula ford experience I'd imagine. I've seen evidence that big heavy saloon cars vent the whole 3" directly on to a section of the disc and rely on the natural rotation of the wheel to rotate the disc and disperse this cold air feed across the disc. Anyone have any first hand experience of this they can comment on?

- What fastener methods? At the disc end this could possibly be achieved by an alloy bracket that's bolted through via some other components bolt. Fasteners to keep the pipe in place would be stainless steel. It's not easily corroded and they're cheap.

- What to do at the back of the fog light surrounds to attach hose. At the front of the car the whole collar and assembly there will depend on what the back of the fog light blanks look like. I need to see some first to get an idea of the best approach. I may be able to fabricate an alloy collar or they may have a lip already as part of the fog light surround and I can just hollow out the back. That'd be nice.

- Hose choice and routing. The choice is easy, plenty of high temp flex hose out there. The routing not so much. I haven't really pulled off enough covers to get a better picture. Chassis rails are a possibility. I'm guessing at some point I'm going to need to punch a whole in the arch liners to route the hose out to the hub/brake assembly. Hmm. I need to jack it up and have a fiddle I think.

So anyway, can anyone offer my a valid reason why this is a good/bad/insane idea?


Edit: For those having trouble visualizing this ranting, this is sort of what I'm thinking:

774278422_qzhwk-M.jpg
I would vent towards the middle of the disc yes, that or to the leading edge of the disc

A guy I knew on another forum routed his windscreen washers onto his brake discs...... :crazy: Oh and YES he did crack his discs.
 
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