multispoke said:

Thanks for correcting me on the 'special paint' J333EVO. It's unlikely that the ebay manifold is done with the proper ceramic coating given the price that Ashley is doing it for. If I was going for the manifold I would be looking for the proper ceramic coating because it would be likely that I would be running an open cone filter - the less heat in there the better. Saw a scooby recently on a 'car for sale' site and it was full of ceramic exhaust tape - looked like it had been in the warzone !

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The tape/ceramic coating isn't really to keep heat out of the intake, it's to keep the heat in the exhaust to make it more efficient.

306maxi said:

The tape/ceramic coating isn't really to keep heat out of the intake, it's to keep the heat in the exhaust to make it more efficient.

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What I should have said was less heat in the engine bay the better. Thanks for clarifying that Maxi. On the last CAI I installed I had some heat soak and wrapping the manifold - the bit that I could do - had limited success with the CAT built in the manifold. Looking at Ashleys - one getting the hot exhaust gases out of the engine as quick as possible should give better 'flow' and having the coating hopefully will reduce the heat soak. I'm not convinced yet that someone has done this successfully without 'CAT light' coming on. Nouva maintained that performance exhausts were 'hit & miss' in relation to this.

multispoke said:

What I should have said was less heat in the engine bay the better. Thanks for clarifying that Maxi. On the last CAI I installed I had some heat soak and wrapping the manifold - the bit that I could do - had limited success with the CAT built in the manifold. Looking at Ashleys - one getting the hot exhaust gases out of the engine as quick as possible should give better 'flow' and having the coating hopefully will reduce the heat soak. I'm not convinced yet that someone has done this successfully without 'CAT light' coming on. Nouva maintained that performance exhausts were 'hit & miss' in relation to this.

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No, that's not what I said at all!!!!!!

I have being doing a bit of searching 'on and off' on the forum and 'found' another posting (thanks to RobW) that I thought was benefical.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/224124-so-much-no-more-mods.html
post #24
I did come across and thread showing an engine out with a superspirint manifold 'attached' to it but I have unfortunately 'lost' the URL. It would have been posted by Dragdayqueen who has recently sold her Panda 100HP.
There was an interesting comparison between a BMC CAI and a BMC filter...
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/246142-rr-results-standard-vs-bmc-panel-vs-bmc-cda.html
and this showed that using a replacement filter was more benefical than a closed air induction system (and this was before the ITG Foam filter became available and it also did not 'do' a GSR or another open cone test).
Re the 2 cats in the 500 exhaust setup there is apparently 2. Fiat placed the CAT in the manifold so it would work more efficiently. Powder coating a manifold might be the 'key' to keeping the 'gases' hot so that when it's processed by a sports cat further down the line that it works efficiently.
If one can get 5mpg extra and extra 5bhp isn't that a win-win and that is just on the exhaust alone. Combine this with a better breathing this would result in a much more efficient engine.

multispoke said:

It would have been posted by Dragdayqueen who has recently sold her Panda 100HP.

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Ha! Ha! Do you mean trackdayqueen?

grimwau said:

Ha! Ha! Do you mean trackdayqueen?

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I'd imagine that Lauren would have a good laugh at that - my error - well spotted !

multispoke said:

I have being doing a bit of searching 'on and off' on the forum and 'found' another posting (thanks to RobW) that I thought was benefical.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/224124-so-much-no-more-mods.html
post #24
I did come across and thread showing an engine out with a superspirint manifold 'attached' to it but I have unfortunately 'lost' the URL. It would have been posted by Dragdayqueen who has recently sold her Panda 100HP.
There was an interesting comparison between a BMC CAI and a BMC filter...
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/246142-rr-results-standard-vs-bmc-panel-vs-bmc-cda.html
and this showed that using a replacement filter was more benefical than a closed air induction system (and this was before the ITG Foam filter became available and it also did not 'do' a GSR or another open cone test).
Re the 2 cats in the 500 exhaust setup there is apparently 2. Fiat placed the CAT in the manifold so it would work more efficiently. Powder coating a manifold might be the 'key' to keeping the 'gases' hot so that when it's processed by a sports cat further down the line that it works efficiently.
If one can get 5mpg extra and extra 5bhp isn't that a win-win and that is just on the exhaust alone. Combine this with a better breathing this would result in a much more efficient engine.

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If you actually read the BMC thread you would see that the dyno numbers were highly suspect.

You do NOT powercoat the manifold, it's a ceramic coating and is far more expensive than powdercoating.

I can't help but feel that you seem to be planning to spend a great deal of money making a 1.4 not all that much faster and a lot less attractive in terms of resale value. If you want to spend money on your car to make it quicker, then buy decent suspension as that's the one area where 500's from 1.2-Abarth can be improved immensely for a lot less than a manifold, sports cat and some silly intake geared at 18 year olds OR just wait and get an Abarth.......

I know you mean well.
I like the thoughts of being an 18 year old again.

multispoke said:

I know you mean well.
I like the thoughts of being an 18 year old again.

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The thing is, you seem to have made your mind up that you want to do this stuff even though if you do some reading into it, most of it makes little/no difference. If that's what you want then that's what you want. But you need to recognise that as always, the gains with a small n/a engine are always going to be small and not really all that worthwhile especially for road use until you start playing with things like cams. It all seems like putting a set of race coilovers on a car which is running 14" eco tyres, sure there's a difference, but it's more or less a waste of money. Especially considering the fact that you want to buy an Abarth in the future which means any money you spend on modifications now will be thrown away when it comes time to get rid.

multispoke said:

I know you mean well.
I like the thoughts of being an 18 year old again.

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Dude, seriously save your money sell yours and get an Abarth, that is what I would do if in your position.

arorat said:

Dude, seriously save your money sell yours and get an Abarth, that is what I would do if in your position.

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Ditto. The only modifications I definitely plan on doing for my car is replacing the crappy Fiat suspension with better suspension like Bilstein coilovers or Koni FSD's, because the suspension supplied with most new cars and the 500 in particular is abysmal, it's meant to last the warranty period and provide what the manufacturer feels is adequate handling. As the old saying goes, power is nothing without control and any extra power is useless if the car is bouncing around like 500's seem to do on 16" wheels....

arorat said:

Dude, seriously save your money sell yours and get an Abarth, that is what I would do if in your position.

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I appreciate all the well meaning responses - no seriously.
The price differential between a 500 1.4 and an Abarth in Ireland is €7k on a 2009 model.
That's to get from 100bhp to 135bhp.
If I spend say £500 to go from 100bhp to a realistic 115bhp I would view that as value for money. The power delivery of the extra horses on a NA means that you don't need a TTC to stop the wheel scrabble.
I've had a turbo charged car before and despite the reassurances that turbos are proven and are not a headache I've been there, done that. I will probably end up with an Abarth but I will probably buy a new one with the MA engine and the c. 129grs/km emissions given the excise charge on imports.
If the performance mod compromises re-sale I'll just take the manifold and the sports cat off and sell it on ebay - it will sell. The filter can be left there and if its a CAI that can be easily taken off. Cams are a different story but skimming a head for raised compression - that could be going a little far but combined with the porting & polishing - I'm kinda tempted.
Also the handbag spec that I have will probably go to my better half in a year's time (she prefers it to her Mito MJ). She likes a bit of overtaking 'power'. I would find it hard to pick up one as clean again with such low mileage.
Re the suspension - I've very impressed with the 'sports' suspension on the 1.4 - it does have the Anti roll bar and compared with the '08 feels tight and is surprisingly more comfortable. To upgrade the brakes is easy enough with a set from an Abarth that has been esseessed. The car already has all round disc brakes. Plus it has the standard fit ESP which is handy if you're been juvenille.
As said before mods are not rational. If I get some enjoyment from a bit of tinkering - what the heck - you only live once.

RobW said:

well it's on and am very pleased with it

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RobW said:

it has totally transformed the power delivery of the car as well - now pulls strongly from 2500 rpm - just like an 8v engine
when you get above 5k rpm it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up
also 6th gear is the only gear you need on the motorway now, will pull from 50 mph no problem whereas before it needed a downshift
lovely sound on the over-run too, and average mpg has risen from 35 mpg to 40 mpg
the only question remaining is why don't Fiat make them like this...?

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multispoke said:

I appreciate all the well meaning responses - no seriously.
The price differential between a 500 1.4 and an Abarth in Ireland is €7k on a 2009 model.
That's to get from 100bhp to 135bhp.
If a spend say £500 to go from 100bhp to a realistic 115bhp I would view that as value for money. The power delivery of the extra horses on a NA means that you don't need a TTC to stop the wheel scrabble.

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I doubt you'll get to 115bhp for £500. Even if you do you're ignoring the torque that the turbo engine offers. We've got a Subaru Legacy turbo with a 2l turbo engine. Practically no one ever bothers to do any work on the engines of the non-turbo 2.0 and 2.5 engines because it's more or less pointless when you can sell and get a far better package for not much more.

As for the 7k price differential, well I've seen some used Abarth's on ebay popping up for £10k now so I don't agree at all.

When the fastest 500 was the 1.4 NA, it made sense for people like RobW and Jnoiles to do remaps and put different exhausts on, but now with the Abarth the 1.4 is not really worth modifying in terms of the engine.

306maxi said:

I doubt you'll get to 115bhp for £500. Even if you do you're ignoring the torque that the turbo engine offers. We've got a Subaru Legacy turbo with a 2l turbo engine. Practically no one ever bothers to do any work on the engines of the non-turbo 2.0 and 2.5 engines because it's more or less pointless when you can sell and get a far better package for not much more.

As for the 7k price differential, well I've seen some used Abarth's on ebay popping up for £10k now so I don't agree at all.

When the fastest 500 was the 1.4 NA, it made sense for people like RobW and Jnoiles to do remaps and put different exhausts on, but now with the Abarth the 1.4 is not really worth modifying in terms of the engine.

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Irish prices !

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Fiat/500/Abarth/201111201591049/advert?channel=CARS

If I was in the UK I would have the A500.
Excise duty on importing into Ireland on a '09 A500 will would be around €3,300 providing it had no extras. Some guys here have had to pay €4k on a '09 because of leather/colour/etc. Either way you would be looking at €15k-€16k landed cost. Trust me - I have been down this road !
Plus we have no one who will service an Abarth and there's no warranty when it is more than 2 years old - but that's a different story...

multispoke said:

Irish prices !

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Fiat/500/Abarth/201111201591049/advert?channel=CARS

If I was in the UK I would have the A500.
Excise duty on importing into Ireland on a '09 A500 will would be around €3,300 providing it had no extras. Some guys here have had to pay €4k on a '09 because of leather/colour/etc. Either way you would be looking at €15k-€16k landed cost. Trust me - I have been down this road !
Plus we have no one who will service an Abarth and there's no warranty when it is more than 2 years old - but that's a different story...

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£10k + 4k euros is how much? Hmmm ok perhaps you have a little point.

multispoke said:

Irish prices !

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Fiat/500/Abarth/201111201591049/advert?channel=CARS

If I was in the UK I would have the A500.
Excise duty on importing into Ireland on a '09 A500 will would be around €3,300 providing it had no extras. Some guys here have had to pay €4k on a '09 because of leather/colour/etc. Either way you would be looking at €15k-€16k landed cost. Trust me - I have been down this road !
Plus we have no one who will service an Abarth and there's no warranty when it is more than 2 years old - but that's a different story...

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Silly prices, what are they playing at

multispoke said:

I did come across and thread showing an engine out with a superspirint manifold 'attached' to it but I have unfortunately 'lost' the URL.

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If you look for pictures/threads by either myself, or my partner Emma (foxyemx) on here you will find a 1.4 16V engine wth SuperSpirnt exhaust manifold fitted as we fitted these engine to both our Seicento, which is now sold, and our current Cinq trackday car. the pictures will show it fitted on the engine bare in the garage and I believe in the car.

One engine came from a Stilo which is same as the Panda100P, the other a GP which has a different bolt pattern on the head and the two manifolds without some modification do not fit each other.

Although we did change the head recently on our Cinq to an earlier designed head from 1.2/1.4 16V Punto and modified the manifold flange to fit as not one single hole on flange lines up correctly.

J333EVO said:

If you look for pictures/threads by either myself, or my partner Emma (foxyemx) on here you will find a 1.4 16V engine wth SuperSpirnt exhaust manifold fitted as we fitted these engine to both our Seicento, which is now sold, and our current Cinq trackday car. the pictures will show it fitted on the engine bare in the garage and I believe in the car.

One engine came from a Stilo which is same as the Panda100P, the other a GP which has a different bolt pattern on the head and the two manifolds without some modification do not fit each other.

Although we did change the head recently on our Cinq to an earlier designed head from 1.2/1.4 16V Punto and modified the manifold flange to fit as not one single hole on flange lines up correctly.

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Many thanks for giving me your partners name and the 'pointer' to the picture. I will read through the posts in time - a lot of detail...
https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/91558-seicento-1-4-16v-project-15.html

Attaching the picture of re-built engine and the awesome looking manifold...