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Old 01-04-2008   #16
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Re: my blood is boiling

That really suck, sorry to hear it.
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Old 01-04-2008   #17
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Re: my blood is boiling

Well, this is a sorry tale.

However, it is not Fiat's fault, and you can't really expect them to do anything for you. You were not buying a car from Fiat UK, your contract was with the original dealer where you placed your order. The second dealer (in Bristol) has done you no wrong, either. They merely picked up a car which was sitting at Portbury with no (solvent) dealership to take delivery and found a buyer for it. They knew nothing about you or your deposit.

All you can hope for is that you might recover your deposit from the receivers of the original dealership, but it is most unlikely that you will get the full amount. I do hope you have the receipt for it on the dealer's headed paper?

So, what should we learn from this? When ordering a car -
  • Do not give a cash deposit unless you absolutely have to. Ring round a few dealers first to find out what their rules are on this.
  • If you do have to put down a deposit, keep it as small as they will accept - limit the amount of cash which you are exposing to total loss if the worst happens.
  • Negotiate the deposit down, if you have to - very few salespeople are going to lose a sale because you will only give them 250 rather than 500.
  • Get a receipt, dated and signed, and on the dealer's headed paper.
  • Pay the amount by credit card, not debit card or cheque - then you have a chance of getting it back from the credit card company.
This whole business of deposits against new car orders really needs looking into, because there is no safeguard for the consumer as we have seen here.

John
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Last edited by John R Smith; 01-04-2008 at 12:28.
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Old 01-04-2008   #18
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Re: my blood is boiling

Quote Originally Posted by John R Smith View Post
This whole business of deposits against new car orders really needs looking into, because there is no safeguard for the consumer as we have seen here.

John
So a dealer is to order a 11,000 car to be built from scratch at the factory without any sort of commitment from the customer?
Some will do it, but why should they have too?
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Last edited by Venters; 01-04-2008 at 12:29.
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Old 01-04-2008   #19
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Re: my blood is boiling

Beast

it needs looking into for two reasons -
  • You, as the trader, have my money sitting in your account for the six to twelve weeks (or longer) it takes to get the car. You are earning interest on it, while I am not.
  • If your company becomes insolvent within this period, I lose all of my money and have no redress.
In other fields, this does not apply - house purchase deposits, for example, are refundable up to the point where contracts are exchanged. Once contracts are exchanged, the vendor must complete the sale and hand me my property. With cars, at the top end of the market, we are dealing with items which are as expensive as houses. It amazes me that there are not more robust procedures in place to protect both buyer and the dealership.

By the way, I used to be in the motor trade myself, so I have seen this from both sides of the fence.

John
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Last edited by John R Smith; 01-04-2008 at 13:52.
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Old 01-04-2008   #20
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Re: my blood is boiling

Quote Originally Posted by XIIX View Post
update,
once again thank you for all your messages.
i have called the dealer in bristol who have let me know that they did receive the car. they have told me that the car was not delivered to the wrong dealer but was simply left on the port for too long and they had called it up instead of denkale west london who had ordered it for me.
and the best part ..... THEY HAVE ALREADY SOLD IT!! WHAT THE HELLL!
how can this happen. i ordered it months ago with a deposit and someone else walks into their showroom and buys it! - i am now down 500 and 3 months of waiting for nothing.
have been speaking to fiat uk and fiat directly in italy who are both equally useless. i am awaiting a call back from each having called several times.. why do things like this happen, i do not know who's fault this all is, but is certainly a reflection of fiat who i think suck big time! my two pennies worth anyway!

Sounds like your dealer had not paid Fiat for the car or they owed fiat so they would not deliver. Has your car actually left the bristol dealership? You could always try get it back. I am surprised they managed to sell such a specfic car.
It might be worth going to another dealer and seeing what stock they have available quickly, I bet there are a few in the system with your colour, fogs and alloys, maybe just struggle with the leather, esp and climate

or how about this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2008-08-reg-FI...QQcmdZViewItem

It's been on a while think he has already reduced it by 350, might be able knock it down to the list price of 9400 and then buy some of your options.
Good Luck
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Old 01-04-2008   #21
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Re: my blood is boiling

Quote Originally Posted by John R Smith View Post
Beast

it needs looking into for two reasons -
  • You, as the trader, have my money sitting in your account for the six to twelve weeks (or longer) it takes to get the car. You are earning interest on it, while I am not.
  • If your company becomes insolvent within this period, I lose all of my money and have no redress.
In other fields, this does not apply - house purchase deposits, for example, are refundable up to the point where contracts are exchanged. Once contracts are exchanged, the vendor must complete the sale and hand me my property. With cars, at the top end of the market, we are dealing with items which are as expensive as houses. It amazes me that there are not more robust procedures in place to protect both buyer and the dealership.

By the way, I used to be in the motor trade myself, so I have seen this from both sides of the fence.

John
Thats all well and good. But still doesn't answer why they should order thousands of pounds worth of car without any sign of commitment from a customer. Especially with a car like the 500 where specced options specific to the person placing the order can mean a car is much harder to sell to someone else.

The company I work for in general asks for a deposit before ordering any car but it is not a requirement. However I will always refuse to take an order without a commitment to buying the car in the form of a deposit, because there is no way in hell I'm ordering a car worth worth say 11,000 for when it is delivered to the garage for the customer to then say they will just cancel. Which for some reason seems to happen much less when a customer has already put money down on the car.
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Old 01-04-2008   #22
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Re: my blood is boiling

totally agree with you beast, if a customer wants the dealer to order a car he should show the same commitment by putting down a deposit.
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Old 01-04-2008   #23
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Re: my blood is boiling

The buyer's security is best provided by paying the deposit by credit card, with the guarantee this implies. Many of us know that, but not all.

However, business transactions depend on good faith, without which commerce ceases, and XIIX paid in good faith and has been let down badly. 500 is a lot of money for many people, me included, and I would be raging too.

I can only recommend a good lawyer to get the best advice; but there are crap lawyers too.
Life!
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Last edited by Ulpian; 01-04-2008 at 19:07.
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Old 01-04-2008   #24
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Re: my blood is boiling

The simple truth is that (a) a dealer who is stuck with a vehicle ordered by a customer who has refused to complete the purchase will in all probability be able to find another purchaser for the vehicle with little (if any) net loss on the deal; (b) the dealer is more likely to be in a financial position to absorb any loss incurred as a result of a customer defaulting on a purchase; (c) in any event the dealer will be able to sue the defaulting purchaser for any loss in an action for breach of contract (having first done its best to reduce its losses by looking for an alternative buyer for the vehicle).

In contrast, a buyer who has paid a substantial deposit to a dealer that goes bust will have to take his/her place in the (probably very lengthy) queue of creditors, and as an unsecured creditor will find him/herself well down that queue.

John's advice to buyers is spot on. Pay the deposit by credit card if you have to - or better still take your business to another dealer who doesn't insist on a large deposit up front. There's a market out there - someone will want your business!

Unless and until the manufacturers are prepared to guarantee the deposits of buyers in the event of bankruptcy on the part of their dealers (which will happen when hell freezes over), buyers will always be at risk in the event of a business failure.

And to those sellers who moan about how hard-done-by they are - get over it! Too many of us have been turned over too many times by dealers to have any sympathy.
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Old 01-04-2008   #25
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Re: my blood is boiling

That absolutely guttering I would be devastated.

Ive noted whilst being on the official fiat website (www.fiat.co.uk) that they have a big forum on there that a lot of people use. Ive noticed that alot of people have said they have had personal emails from fiat.co.uk in response to the threads they have posted regarding order times, moans etc.

I suggest putting a post on their forum regarding your experience of ordering a 500. I dont think your scenario is really fiat's fault, but if you share your experience on there with potential buyers, they may start to help you out as im sure they wont like you sharing your bad expirience with others.

It may help, it may not but it might be worth a shot.

Keep us all posted with how you get on and hope you get it sorted.
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Old 01-04-2008   #26
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Re: my blood is boiling

Quite!
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Old 01-04-2008   #27
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Re: my blood is boiling

Something similar happened to me, the fiat I payed my deposit on, was sold... TWICE, on two separate occasions !!! By the same dealership... it resolved itself in the end, in fact I got a new 5dr Grande Punto for the price of a 3dr I just badgered the dealership... also take legal advice (like that offered on page 1, from the amazingly kind Barrister...)
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Old 01-04-2008   #28
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Re: my blood is boiling

hey guys, thanks for all your support..
as you can guess, i am totally bummed, i dnt mind the 500 loss anymore, just the fact i wasted three exciting months of waiting for a car that may never show up.
i will of course update you all with any progress i make.
also yes, the really kind barrister is awesome i know

anyway i wrote a poem;

Soon its my birthday,
I don't have my car.

ok, so it doesn't have to rhyme
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Old 01-04-2008   #29
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Re: my blood is boiling

X11X I really do feel for you it's an awful situation and 500 is a lot of money to lose, but it's the time you have waited with excitement about the car and now it's taken away I really sympathise with you I hope you can get something sorted out keep smiling
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Old 01-04-2008   #30
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Re: my blood is boiling

Quote Originally Posted by Socrates View Post
Nebrog is right about going ahead and paying the other 500 to get your car and about solicitors' costs but I offer my services for free if you need help. I am a qualified Barrister and despite the many, often justified, stereotypes about lawyers we're not all money grabbing leeches and I'd work on a free (or pro bono) basis to help out a fellow 500 buyer.

As I indicated earlier, as long as the credit card payment applies then I think you have a decent chance of getting your money, if not it obviously depends on the circumstances but I think it's worth a try considering the amount involved.
I salute you for your most gracious offer to XIIX
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Last edited by Exoticaholic; 01-04-2008 at 22:10. Reason: corrections
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