I recently bought a 69 500F with a 650 engine and it seems to be missing the shield on the engine bay door and tye one between the dizzy and the exhaust. Engine bay door gets quite hot and there is a 123 electronic ignition in the cap and I have read these don't do well with heat.
With the car having a 650 engine will the ones on FD Ricambi work and also which ones? Links would be great as there appears to be a few listed that are different shapes.

Also, undertrays are also not present, on the 850 they are vital for cooling, is this also the case with the 500 or are they more of a splash guard? Again will these fit with the 650 and are they needed?

Thanks all!

Gav

I can’t speak to fit but you definitely want some sort of shield over the exhaust area. That gets hot as blazes under the best circumstances. The protector for the door is a piece of heat resistant foam like material. Shouldn’t get hung up on anything in the bay and is just held there with the bent metal tabs on the door.

I just ordered the lower tray for mine and have yet to install it. Looks like it will mostly be a splash guard as it doesn’t tie into any of the cooling ductwork. I could be wrong but that seems to be it’s primary purpose.

the one on the engine lid was originally made of asbestos so probably best not to try finding an original one.
I think the one between exhaust and dizzy is probably important but I also think the engine bay looks incomplete without it. Same with the under tray.
I'm surprised you haven't had more input on whether standard 500 shields will work on the 650 engine and how vital they are. I would've thought the standard 500 items would be compatible.

Fayray said:

the one on the engine lid was originally made of asbestos so probably best not to try finding an original one.
I think the one between exhaust and dizzy is probably important but I also think the engine bay looks incomplete without it. Same with the under tray.
I'm surprised you haven't had more input on whether standard 500 shields will work on the 650 engine and how vital they are. I would've thought the standard 500 items would be compatible.

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The 126 one is slightly different but easily modified to fit the 500 and I think they look better and may have cooling advantages. If you can find them for sale they are much more expensive

I have a tuned 126 engine in the back of my 500 and must admit to having left the shield on the left under-side of the car off, and not noticed any problem, or difference in the temperature of the engine. The fact that my engine has a 3-1/2 litre ally sump might be a factor though! However, I have retained the 'above the silencer' heat shield, which had to be well tweaked to fit with the exhaust that I have on the engine (nothing really fancy, just a good, single-outlet sports version).
As I have previously mentioned, with an electronic ignition fitted, it is wise to look at keeping the distributor as cool as possible. even to the point of putting some sort of heat 'wrap' on the distributor or a shield between the distributor and the thermostat housing---the air coming out of there is at a temperature ABOVE the 'happy working' temperature of most (if not all) of the electronic ignition systems

FR85 said:

I recently bought a 69 500F with a 650 engine and it seems to be missing the shield on the engine bay door and tye one between the dizzy and the exhaust. Engine bay door gets quite hot and there is a 123 electronic ignition in the cap and I have read these don't do well with heat.
With the car having a 650 engine will the ones on FD Ricambi work and also which ones? Links would be great as there appears to be a few listed that are different shapes.

Also, undertrays are also not present, on the 850 they are vital for cooling, is this also the case with the 500 or are they more of a splash guard? Again will these fit with the 650 and are they needed?

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Hi Gav. If you want the correct exhaust heat shield it's the one for the 500R...https://webshop.fiat500126.com/en/t...baffle-plate-_-cover-panel-for-exhaust-system

With that and the addition of the air-flow under the car, most of the silencer heat is deflected away from the engine-bay. The distributor is in the cooling air-flow directed out of the engine cowling. Whilst that air carries heat from the cylinder head and barrels, it will still have the capacity to cool the distributor, and the heat-shield persuades that air to mingle with the air flowing away from the exhaust. I have bored everyone retelling the story of the many thousands of troublefree miles I have done on a 123.

I feel that the undertray is invoved in cooling to some extent,because the shape acts as a sort of scoop and may contribute to a slight pressurisation of the engine bay; this would assist any heated air to exit the louvres in the engine-cover. Having said that, the orientation of the louvres on the 126 undertray would go against that theory to some extent.

I thing it is logical to fit all shields and undertrays as original for whatever the reason they were fitted.

Thanks all for the replies!

Will have a look at getting the exhaust shield below the dizzy right away along with the boot lid heat shield. The boot lid gets very warm around the right side naturally as that's right by the exhaust and thermostat flap and my fear is an inquisitive kid may scald his or herself. I know they shouldn't be touching but kids....

I'm thinking you maybe onto something fiat500 when it comes to it maybe being a bit of an airscoop and using ram air effect. If nothing else it will serve to protect the alternator.
I was also looking at the 3.5l sumps, do you need to extend the oil pickup pipe when fitting them and also does the regular rubber sump gasket work with them?

Really loving this thing, gets more of a crowd reaction then my 850 sedan!

Thanks guys!

Gav

My thoughts were that with the Fiat 500 engine compartment being very much the same as the 126 that for whatever reasons the design engineers must have seen the louvred under tray as an improvement and I am sure it would not have been for cosmetic reasons being underneath the car.

The oil pick-up does not need to be extended when the 3-1/2 litre sump is fitted. They are obtainable 'blank' if required. There are 2 options for sealing the alloy sump--using the (normal) 'rubberoid' gasket or, as a number of people are doing these days, using a modern high-temperature silicon sealer in place of the gasket. Care must be taken when using the sealer that none goes into the sump---I tend to put sealer only on the outer 1/2 of the flange and around the screw-holes. You will need longer screws when fitting the alloy sump--I use 20mm stainless cap-head screws and retain the original oblong washers (which have a serrated surface that goes under the screw head). I do not like,or recommend. the 'cork' gasket---it is too easily broken and difficult to tighten up the sump-fixing screws sufficiently.

Toshi 975 said:

My thoughts were that with the Fiat 500 engine compartment being very much the same as the 126 that for whatever reasons the design engineers must have seen the louvred under tray as an improvement and I am sure it would not have been for cosmetic reasons being underneath the car.

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..agreed...and as you said previously, extra expense involved, so there had to be a point to it.

Apparently, the major reason for the manufacturer fitting a massive undertray on my Citroen Picasso was to add streamlining so as to contribute towards fuel economy. think the Fiat one is mainly to catch any spanners or nuts and bolts which might be dropped.

fiat500 said:

..agreed...and as you said previously, extra expense involved, so there had to be a point to it.

Apparently, the major reason for the manufacturer fitting a massive undertray on my Citroen Picasso was to add streamlining so as to contribute towards fuel economy. think the Fiat one is mainly to catch any spanners or nuts and bolts which might be dropped.

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Am I not right in thinking that there would be a slight induced vacuum at the back of the car in motion in which case it might contribute to air flow through the Louvres

Had a look for 126 ones and sure enough they seem to be harder to obtain.

Vacuum may well be obtained via the boot lid louvres combined with the fact the fan pressurizes the engine bay to some extent forcing air out.

Could the 126 louvres have been put in for airflow and for letting water drip out?

FR85 said:

Had a look for 126 ones and sure enough they seem to be harder to obtain.

Vacuum may well be obtained via the boot lid louvres combined with the fact the fan pressurizes the engine bay to some extent forcing air out.

Could the 126 louvres have been put in for airflow and for letting water drip out?

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one on Fleabay now....

Bigvtwin996 said:

one on Fleabay now....

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That cheap refurbished one at £110

Toshi 975 said:

That cheap refurbished one at £110

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think there was one for £20

So of course I bought the wrong bloody heat shield for the exhaust! Will need to do a little bit of modifying to get it to fit! Need to take a slice out of the front to let it get in beside the cabin heat feed.

Hobbler, looking at the 3.5l sumps again, were in lockdown for maybe a month in Ireland so again looking at making things better and getting jobs done! What size bolts are needed to the aluminium sumps? I have asked Frank in FD if he has them as they are not listed.

Tempted by their UL1054 exhaust but am worried about adding more noise into the equation!

Have a great Christmas all!

Gav

Hi Gav; hoping you are having as good a day as we are allowed in these very difficult times. I use 20mm x 6mm stainless cap-head (allen) screws along with the original little Fiat oblong washers. Just for good measure, I also put a 'shake-proof' washer between the screw-head and the washer.
I am using a silicon sealant these days instead of a gasket when fitting the sump. If you DO use a gasket, use the 'rubberoid' version, NOT the cork variety.
When applying the sealer to the sump flange, be careful how you apply it. I suggest that you put sealer on just the outer half of the flange and carefully around the screw holes. This is so that there is a minimal chance of any sealer being squeezed out into the sump.
Having gone round all the screws and tightened them, I give the sealant a good couple of hours to go 'off' and then go round all the screws again and give them a 'nip' up.
However, I would suggest that initially you 'dry-fit' the sump so that you can check that all the screw-holes in the sump all align with all the threaded holes in the crankcase---it is not unusual for some 'fettling to be required to get them all alighned!

Having just done this, I can confirm they're M6x1.0 / 20mm bolts. Since I was missing a couple of the original clipped washers, I put all new 14mm OD spring lock washers all the way around. Do the dry fit though. I did, they all aligned, then when it came time with the RTV in place, one of the ones next to the rear main bearing cap was just a touch off. I'm afraid it may have cut threads, but can't be certain. It's holding nonetheless.

The trick is to get ALL the screws started, by at least 3 or 4 threads before you start to tighten them--that way, even with the sealant in place, the sump is loose enough for a 'bit of a wiggle' to get all the screws comfortably started