Turned on the Tv..... 18:00 Sat...


I could only watch it for 7 minutes...
shook my head at the "It's a D Model"

Vintage Voltage..

1st one I'd ever seen ..

Not a sound purchase by the 'owner: driver'

Though it does look smart

I watched the programme purely because it was a 500 (I won't be watching any others)---they destroyed a perfectly sound 'D'!! The owner thought that she had blown up the engine, which she hadn't. The garage weren't much better--didn't up-rate the drive-shafts or couplings (how long will they last with stop/go London driving?), the mechanic ON TV was working under a car on a jack (no stands!). With the extra performance from the electric motor I would have thought that a brakes up-grade would have been sensible (although I will conced that they were using the motor in a braking capacity). Agreed, the motor wasn't original, but why get rid of it, why not learn to drive it properly---Ricambi were prepared to offer £1200 there and then, before it was inspected. Another one of the cars that they are converting will be a 3-wheeler Morgan (!?), and was that a Gordon-Keeble that I saw in the workshop?-sacriledge!!
I was NOT impressed!!

the hobbler said:

........I won't be watching any others...............
I was NOT impressed!!

Click to expand...

I think the program (series) could be much better (if that one is a yardstick can't see myself watching any more)...
My main complaint as always is having presenters who are described as knowledgeable about cars...(worked on cars from Fiats to Ferraris...)
But describe a car as totally the wrong model.. it does not take more than 30mins for a researcher to fill in a few blanks...
The car was an N probably 1960

1/4 window swivel and the flat tank being the most obvious things...
but dare not say any more... (tear drop repeaters errr... what's that interior??)

If Ricambi were offering £1200 for the engine..
I would offer £50 for the front badge!!! %wise worth a lot more!


I think the program could have been better if perhaps they had taken a car and "saved" it and converted it to electric, rather than take what could have been an ok car without too much effort...

Classics will be squeezed off the road or only limited use unless they are converted to electric... but what I saw did little to encourage me to rush out and convert.....

That episode of Vintage Voltage will be repeated tomorrow morning, Sunday 5th July at 8 am, in case anyone missed it today.

I wonder how many 'mistakes' on these car programs are actually contrived in order to inject some drama or to get people talking, just thinking of other car tv programs where projects are taken on and MUST be completed in an impossibly short timeframe and of course it goes right down to the wire, might not be done in time (who cares - tomorrow's another day), people having to work through the night (counter-productive - tired people make mistakes) and miraculously, the work gets finished with literally seconds to spare. (the reality, I've heard is that the car actually took weeks/months to complete).

What do you guys think of the 'sound' - I assume this horrible whining sound is from the motor, possibly some from the gearbox, more noticeable now that's it's not masked by engine noise? Imagine driving long distance at speed listening to that.... What happened to an earlier promise by some manufacturers of electric vehicles to incorporate driver selectable real engine sounds from a menu?

Why do electric motors make such a horrible sound, can't they be made silent?

Al.

Most TV programmes which feature classic car restorations end up ruining the car from at least the perspective of some people. But then again, most individuals who restore a classic car either fall short in quality or detail when looked at in a subjective way by knowledgeable enthusiasts. The fact that these programmes create this sort of discourse is an indication that they have entertained us in some way. But maybe the safest thing is not to have access to the TV channels which broadcast this perverted form of entertainment.

There is no practical need to convert a Fiat 500 to electrical propulsion and in doing so I'm sure most people would agree that you lose a big percentage of the car's "personality". But a car is just property and an owner can do as they wish, which includes destroying a sought-after vehicle completely; a fact which has been amply illustrated by another wonderful (or not?) programme, "Top Gear" over many years. In the last few years, from my own observation, a lot of people have had the disposable income which has allowed them to buy a Fiat 500 in order to create a showpiece...a jewel of a vehicle. As is easily seen on this Forum, this is often combined with significant engine, transmission, braking, wheels, instrument and interior upgrades. It might be argued that an otherwise standard Fiat 500 with an electric motor is a purer version than one with a 700cc, big carb. engine supported on 13" alloy wheels.

I don't see a future where we are told that it's either electric or you can't use your classic car. I presume that petrol suited to our cars may become intentionally very hard to get and/or extortionate in price. There's clearly a lot of money to be made by persuading people that electric is a no-brainer. That's one of the reasons why we must carry on being empathetic to the struggling or frustrated new owners of these cars and be happy to repeatedly explain, in the simplest terms possible, just how satisfying it is to gain the knowledge of how to have one of these machines buzzing along in the way it was originally designed.

The biggest reason that is given for converting a car to 'electric' is that the new propulsion system is "green"----load of cobblers! Look into the mileage covered to construct and supply just the battery, and the amount of pollution created. I think that you will find the production of the batteries for a Nisson leaf (which is by no means the biggest of the 'pure electric' cars) is something like 4 TONS. Sure, an old car chucks out a certain amount of pollution from the combustion process, but nowhere near as much as the production of its replacement.
I used to have a canal narrow-boat with a 1933 designed Kelvin 2 cylinder, 3 litre diesel in the engine room (a petrol-start J2 for the pundits)---renowned for its clean exhaust and for how quiet it ran (you couldn't hear it when standing 70ft from it when it was idling or running off-load). The EU wanted to ban all the classic engines on the grounds of 'greeness' until it was realised that in that scrapping the old engine and manufactureing of a replacement created a heck of a lot more pollution. The proposed plan was dropped!

the hobbler said:

The biggest reason that is given for converting a car to 'electric' is that the new propulsion system is "green"----load of cobblers! Look into the mileage covered to construct and supply just the battery, and the amount of pollution created. I think that you will find the production of the batteries for a Nisson leaf (which is by no means the biggest of the 'pure electric' cars) is something like 4 TONS. Sure, an old car chucks out a certain amount of pollution from the combustion process, but nowhere near as much as the production of its replacement.
I used to have a canal narrow-boat with a 1933 designed Kelvin 2 cylinder, 3 litre diesel in the engine room (a petrol-start J2 for the pundits)---renowned for its clean exhaust and for how quiet it ran (you couldn't hear it when standing 70ft from it when it was idling or running off-load). The EU wanted to ban all the classic engines on the grounds of 'greeness' until it was realised that in that scrapping the old engine and manufactureing of a replacement created a heck of a lot more pollution. The proposed plan was dropped!

Click to expand...

Are you seriously trying to debate that an electric vehicle is more polluting than an petrol or Diesel engine? So the fact that you had a canal boat from 1933 that you couldn’t hear or smell makes it ok?

Yes

the hobbler said:

Yes

Click to expand...

I would agree with that...
Where does elecrricity come from for starters? I don't think it is realistic to assume that electric cars are powered from electricity produced by solar or wave power...
and tracing back how are the panels etc actually produced.....

Birmingham was poised to introduce a low congestion charge... we have already seen house prices rise just outside the boundary...
Ohh if you have an electric or hybrid you can drive in FOC but unless your vehicle s 1-2 years old it will be probably £8 per day or £50 for lorries and buses...
Sure it will reduce the NO2 and other such pollutants in the city... it will also reduce the number of businesses... I know several people already not renewing leases and looking for new premises outside the boundary....
But hey there s a loophole. cars taxed as Classic or whatever are exempt (unless used for business) And how long will that last!!!


I don't know the solution, but there is an obsession about Electric vehicles but the "zero" emissions may be correct when you are driving them, but I don't think it is "zero" to produce them or the "fuel" they use nor is Lithium one of the nicest elements for the environment...

There are similar discussions on other car forums... and there is a general opinion that classc wll be squeeded off teh road or their use restricted...
Not sure if many people are worried but...
"A ban on selling new petrol, diesel or hybrid cars in the UK will be brought forward from 2040 to 2035 at the latest, under government plans" That really isn't that far away!! and what does it mean for Petrol/diesel supply?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868

650 thousand EV,s in the UK, 38.4 million vehicles in the UK so we need around 38 million new EVs somehow I don't think production of these will be green, but they will be profitable. Nothing will be ever done until the environment is put before profits.
The greenest car is the one you keep for 15 years, that's 5 cars to most now with most being changed at 3 years, some are on their 3rd EV so no more green than any other vehicle.

The.manufacture of EV batteries is energy intensive but more so in countries which still produce "dirty" electricity. These batteries also have a murky background in respect of the way that the cobalt used in them is mined; the health of the miners, including many children, appears often to be disregarded.

The "lifetime" carbon emissions of a comparable EV are less than those of an IC vehicle, but where countries have an increasing proportion of renewable electricity generation the EV becomes less polluting.

Maybe just as important as the global effects of running a petrol or diesel car is the fact that the emissions they produced go straight into our streets and have a more direct effect on public health.

Most classic vehicles do limited mileages and the implications of their original manufacturing emissions have been spread.over many years. So I am pretty sure that in its subsequent lifetime, a 500 converted to electric propulsion is very unlikely to ever have a cleaner sheet on total lifetime carbon emissions than an unmodified car.

It's a complex and changing subject, but basically, in the UK at present, a new EV is overall less polluting than a comparable diesel powered car.

the hobbler said:

Yes

Click to expand...

I suggest you do some research then! I think it was 2019 in the UK when electricity production from renewables overtook production by fossil fuel and is continuing to rise.

How you can possibly think that a diesel or petrol driven engine is cleaner is bewildering? When you take into account all factors in the production of oil or lithium batteries, the inefficiency of the petrol or diesel engines, the actual emissions from them. Electric cars are clearly less harmful to the environment.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...an-fossil-fuel-burners?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The first time 'renewable' energy production surpassed 'non-renewable' energy in the UK was late 2019. I have never claimed that a MODERN I/C engined car is cleaner than an electric car day to day running. What I AM saying is that an electric car, by the time that it and all its component parts have been manufactured, and especially when the electricity it uses has been produced by 'non-renewable' energy, is not as 'clean' or 'green' as the proponents of 'electric-only' vehicles would have you believe. I believe that the way forward, for a long time to come, is the "self-charging hybrid".
I cannot understand the point in converting a 'classic' to 'electric'--how can the manufacture of the electric motor, the batteries and all the electrics be considered 'green'?
End of discussion!

the hobbler said:

What I AM saying is that an electric car, by the time that it and all its component parts have been manufactured, and especially when the electricity it uses has been produced by 'non-renewable' energy, is not as 'clean' or 'green' as the proponents of 'electric-only' vehicles would have you believe. I believe that the way forward, for a long time to come, is the "self-charging hybrid".
I cannot understand the point in converting a 'classic' to 'electric'--how can the manufacture of the electric motor, the batteries and all the electrics be considered 'green'?
End of discussion!

Click to expand...

That’s not what you said.
I asked if “Are you seriously trying to debate that an electric vehicle is more polluting than an petrol or Diesel engine? So the fact that you had a canal boat from 1933 that you couldn’t hear or smell makes it ok?’

To which you replied “yes”.

The reason they converted the car was because they thought the engine was shot! Which later proved not to be the case. It was a Polish built Fiat 126 ELX engine in that car that you could argue was totally inappropriate for such a nice car. If the owner wanted an electric car to buzz around town in then it’s her personal choice and she was willing to pay the money then good luck to her.

If you don’t want to debate scroll past my replies and it is a simple way to end the discussion!