Technical Compression Test

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Technical Compression Test

DsailsHRrs

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I'm still trying to solve my hot start issue and decided to do a compression test - wanted to anyway to get a baseline. Here are the results - I would appreciate your thoughts.

Cylinder #1
120 Dry
140 Wet

Cylinder #2
125 Dry
145 Wet

This hot start issue is going to make me crazy!! But ... I'll keep going through the ignition systematically.
 
Your compression figures look ok to me (I don't know what compression ratio you're running, but if you multiply 14.5 by your CR you'll get the max. theoretical cylinder compression pressure, then deduct maybe 5% for induction/compression losses, this should give you a fairly accurate figure to look for e.g. 14.5x9 = 130, minus 5% = 124 psi, the original 500 as standard (stock) had a CR less than 9:1).

Are you getting a good spark at both spark plugs when hot, sometimes ignition systems can 'act up' when hot e.g. faulty condenser or coil.
To check - disconnect both plug leads at the spark plugs, insert spare plugs into the ends of the leads, earth the plug bodies against the engine metal and have someone spin the engine over with the ignition on - you should have a good spark at both plugs.

Hot starting problems are usually fuel related e.g. engine flooding or fuel vaporisation.

Starting Technique?
When starting a hot engine, don't pump the accelerator pedal -if the carb has an accelerator pump fitted, doing so can flood the engine.

Try just opening the throttle slightly i.e. partially depress and hold the acc. pedal steady while turning over the engine.

If you think the engine is flooded, press the acc. pedal to the floor and hold it there while turning the engine over.

If the engine has flooded, the spark plugs will be wet with fuel, but they will also be wet with fuel if there is no spark, so rule out faulty ignition first.(which is why I suggested testing the ign. system first). You might also be able to smell petrol in the engine bay.

The usual cause of engine flooding, apart from incorrect technique, is either a leaking float valve, incorrect float level or occasionally a perforated float - but these causes will usually result in poor running at other times. Is there any sign of fuel in the drain tray fitted at the base of the carb - there will be if the carb is flooding. A carb. strip and inspect will be needed to rectify these faults.
***a leaking float valve or incorrect float level are the 2 most common causes of difficult starting when hot***

Difficult hot starting can also be caused by lack of fuel - usually as a result of heat soak into the fuel lines resulting in vaporisation.

Spraying some carb or brake cleaner or Eazi-Start into the carb intake can be used to rule out lack of fuel as a cause. To avoid vaporisation, try leaving the engine lid up (open) (to reduce heat soak) when you stop with a hot engine, then see if it starts better a little later, while still hot. If this helps, you could try fixing some insulation over the fuel lines, but bear in mind that this is not necessary on standard engines even in hot countries. Sometimes a weak fuel pump can contribute to poor hot starting by being slow to prime the fuel line if vaporisation has occurred, but more usually shows up if the car is driven at high revs for a while (pump cannot keep up with fuel demand of the engine).

There's other possible causes for poor hot starting but the above are the most common. Have you checked your valve clearances (valve lash)[?B]. The valves on the 500 have a tendency to close up, they're checked/adjusted cold. You don't say if you checked your compression figures with the engine hot or cold but if you checked them cold, maybe repeat the tests with the engine hot or check the valve clearances, just to rule this out. This is important, so I'd recommend doing this and the test for sparks first before going near the fuel system.

P.S. Don't start changing parts until you've determined what exactly is faulty, might only be some adjustment is needed.

Hth, if not, report back with your findings and we can take it from there.

Al.
 
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Thanks for the note

The car is relatively new to me and there are some things I wanted to do anyway so working through that list at the same time I trace down the hot start issue.

I adjusted the valves (cylinder 2 was tight)
Rebuilt the carb and checked the seating (didn't think the was a leak in the float)
Changed to a 123 Ignition (checked timing with a light)
New wires
New spark plug extenders

I'm changing plugs this week
I tested the coil and it is 8.6 ohms (the coil is new but this doesn't seem right)

I will keep working through the list
 
I changed the distributor cap and rotor arm when I was having hot start/running issues and has seemed to have cured it. Wotth a shot!
 
F123C
Al, something I didn't mention and I'm now suspicious about. For some reason the previous owner fitted an electric fuel pump near the tank but kept the mechanical fuel pump also. I did repair the mechanical fuel pump but did not remove the electric one. Is it possible this electric fuel pump is creating too much pressure and flooding the carb?

When he installed the electric pump he cut the flexible fuel line so it will no longer reach the tank. I'm happy to replace it and bypass the electric pump but wondering your thoughts first.
 
I can never understand why 500 owners go to all the trouble and expense of fitting electric fuel pumps---Abarth relied on the standard 'mechanical'pump even on the 695ss. Just to confuse things,there are 2 types of electric pumps---suckers and blowers---the 'sucker' has to be put by the carb as it sucks in better than it blows out. Conversely, the 'blower' is situated by the tank as it pumps out better than it sucks in.I have also found that some pumps have to be fitted a particular way (vertical or horizontal) in order to work correctly. Personally, I would get rid of the electric pump and all its wiring, buy a new 'mechanical' pump (make sure you get the correct model---the 126 pump is designed to be fitted when an alternator is on the engine) and fit a simple 'return' system (if your carb has the facility for a return). However,do go through the checks that 'Al' has suggested.
 
Some electric fuel pumps put out too much pressure and need to have an adjustable pressure regulator fitted in the line to set the pressure at the carb. to an appropriate figure. (generally 2.5 - 4 psi, I'd err on the lowside if unsure of the manufacturer's correct specs).
So, it's possible that the electric pump is causing the carb to 'flood' by overwhelming the float valve.

It sounds like a previous owner had an issue with fuel delivery to the carb. and fitted an electric pump to try to fix the problem.

I'd agree with 'the hobbler' re. reverting to a standard mechanical fuel pump, it's quite sufficient for the engine's fuel needs and is quite reliable if new or in good condition, plus it won't cause possible over-pressurisation at the carb.

P.S. Tom, good information on the 2 types of electric pump and the need for correct mounting of same. (y)
One safety point to note for anyone fitting an electric fuel pump is to fit an inertia cut-out switch to the pump electrical supply so that the pump will cease pumping in the event of a collision.

Al.
 
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Thanks for the replies. Given that I installed a new mechanical fuel pump I think I will make the effort and run a new flexible fuel line from the tank (previous owner cut the original to install the electric pump). I was also concerned about the safety issue so I'm going to return to factory original and see if that solves my issue.

Thanks again. Don
 
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