General Next car, best option?

[Adam427]

Hi there folks,

For a little background, I've always been a keen Fiat enthusiast since my first car, a 04 Punto Active. Circumstances led me to now currently owning an Abarth 595 Competitzione, a Mitsubishi Evo 6 GSR and my father's X reg Vauxhall Astra.

The Astra is my workhorse as I do 90 miles a day with my commute, which doesn't bother me. But the Astra is a 1.6 petrol estate, its using oil and I'm getting around 36mpg with it.

I'm looking to sell or scrap it next year and purchase a Panda (03-12) but not sure what model/engine would be best for me. I'm looking to cut my running costs and was looking at the 1.3 MJet Diesel for its cracking fuel economy, however last winter it was pretty bad and I had to use my Evo to get to work with it's AWD capability. Which is why I don't know whether to sacrifice some mpg and go for a 1.2 petrol 4X4 Panda, for when I really need it.

Can I get peoples opinions and experiences with either the 1.3 MJet or the 1.2 4X4 with real world mpg figures

Thank you in advance

 

[koalar]

Not sure how relieble Mpg would be

Here in flat Cheshire I get 60+ but the other half is in 40s in the same car 69bhp

2wd panda is very light, on good tyres and it pretty good in the snow

My older 05 on 155 tyres has been all over snowdonia in the winter and never got stuck

Diesel not great if used only for short trips

Which tax band is worth considering

Sorry can't help with 1.3 MJet or the 1.2 4X4 as not had one

Hopefully @porta will be along shortly

 

[AndyRKett]

You can from 2008 get the panda cross with the 1.3 multijet and 4x4… maybe this would be the best option given the situation

 

[jrkitching]

I'm looking to sell or scrap it next year and purchase a Panda (03-12) but not sure what model/engine would be best for me.

The 169 Panda has the potential to be one of the cheapest cars to run that you can buy, period.

That said, they're all over 10yrs old now, and with a car of that age, the economics of ownership are rather different from what you'd find with a newer one.

The key to making it work is keeping the repair bills at a reasonable level. It helps greatly if you can do some or all of the work yourself - owning any car of that age may not work out well if it has to go to a garage every time something needs doing. If you want to keep repair bills down, go for the simplest models; there's less to go wrong with a 2WD petrol than with either a diesel or any 4WD version, and if it does, it's likely to be easier and cheaper to fix.

There are a few potentially costly 4WD only issues; both front and rear subframes are unique to these cars, prone to corrosion, expensive and almost unobtainable; once the corrosion reaches the point where it would fail an MOT, the car is basically a write off. So inspect these areas very carefully if you go this route. We've also had reports of failures with the centre propshaft bearing and viscous coupling; when faced with replacing these, several owners have just removed the propshaft and used it as a 2WD car, which defeats the point of buying one in the first place.

The diesels suffer from clogged emissions control components, burned out glow plugs which strip on removal, and camchain breakage (the latter will scrap your engine, unless you can do all the work yourself and have infinite patience). Access isn't great, so , for example, unblocking a clogged EGR isn't what I'd call a pleasant job. At this age and mileage, the engine could basically be a lump of coal. In my opinion, the real world difference in economy isn't great enough to justify the added complexity and potential for costly repairs.

If you can find a decent one, I'd go for the 1.2 dynamic eco from 2009 onwards; £35 tax, a bulletproof engine and 50mpg+ if driven sensibly. It's also ULEZ compliant, which helps if you need to drive regularly in a clean air zone (but hasn't made it any easier to find a good one at a sensible price).

But I'm biased; I've got one which I bought new in 2010; it now has over 110,000 miles on the clock. It's cost less than £200 in repairs in 13 years, and averaged more than 55 mpg. It cost me about £6600 back in the day; motoring just doesn't get much cheaper than that.

 

[koalar]

Few more things to consider when choosing

Comfort
Complexity
Weight

Comfort
Noise, seats are a negative if doing regular long journeys

Complexity
As cars get older thing wear out, some things are hard to find on the 4x4


Extra weight of the hurts the preformance and ecconomy on the 1.2

Oh god

@jrkitching has written Basicly the same thing thing as me at the same time

 

[jrkitching]

You can from 2008 get the panda cross with the 1.3 multijet and 4x4… maybe this would be the best option given the situation

If the OP's budget will stretch to one of the later 312 4WD Pandas with the later twist beam rear suspension and without the viscous coupling, then I'd agree. But in today's market, that's definitely moving away from being a cheap runabout.

I just don't think it'd be easy to find an older one with the critical parts still in a decent enough condition not to be worrying about a future large repair bill.

 

[jrkitching]

Comfort
Noise, seats are a negative if doing regular long journeys

I'm with you on the seats, I'd say they're at least acceptable for a city car; but on a long run, my back hurts after about two hours. I find noise is speed (and road surface) dependent, and only an issue if you go 55mph+. A lot of it is tyre noise, quieter tyres definitely help.

Looking at what the OP is saying, I'm reading that this is going to be a car to commute to work in and generally use as an all-weather runabout, with economy a priority, for which I'd say a petrol 169 is ideally suited.

 

[porta]

Thanks @koalar
Having had both the 1.2 and multijet I can safely say that they are both economical to drive. Yes, not as good as the 4x2 but they more than make up for it in grip, (with only the 100hp being better for smiles).
Long term ownership of both:
With 150k on the 1.2 petrol climbing, and only taken off the road after it being written off (a sill and wing), we kept it as a farm car and was in the process of making into an ickle-pickup. It had only one component out of the ordinary, the centre bearing, which I did myself. It also had a head gasket done as a precautionary wehn I did cambelt, waterpump and thermostat.
The multijet was by far more economical, regularly getting high fifties, and I’m a heavy footed driver. It also towed things that would make a Land Rover blush. I never had any of the running issues that some have had, my daughter runs this now and loves it
As previously stated, there are parts that are unique to the 4x4s and getting harder to source in this country, so, if you go for one, get it inspected, especially the subframes. I’ve also not had issues with comfort on long journeys, both have done tours round Scotland, the isles, and the south east. I’m 5’ 10” and the only issue with the seats (on both) is the right hand side of seat bolster wears through and the foam sags. This results in cramp in the right thigh, but is easily remedied by jamming some foam in it or replacing the foam pad/seat bolster or/full seat

 

[jrkitching]

right hand side of seat bolster wears through

Mine has done this too, but only on the drivers side! What I think happens is that you naturally slide along this part of the seat when getting in/out of the car, which wears through the fabric covering.

I might look out for a set of seat covers.

 

[porta]

Mine has done this too, but only on the drivers side! What I think happens is that you naturally slide along this part of the seat when getting in/out of the car, which wears through the fabric covering.

I might look out for a set of seat covers.

It’s the same on any car, my Cherokee is the same, my old x19, 128s, strada, Tipo, Uno, puntos, ducatos etc etc, strangely enough, my ivecos didn’t, they were more likely to wear out your trousers!

 

[koalar]

Mine has done this too, but only on the drivers side! What I think happens is that you naturally slide along this part of the seat when getting in/out of the car, which wears through the fabric covering.

I might look out for a set of seat covers.

The drivers seat usally takes the most use

Rivets and zips on pockets don't help

Swapping over for the passangers gets more life out of them, two bolts most cars

Weight of the drive makes a difference, heavy person like me the bars eventually cut through the foam leading to them digging in

 

[porta]

The drivers seat usally takes the most use

Rivets and zips on pockets don't help

Swapping over for the passangers gets more life out of them

Weight of the drive makes a difference, heavy person like me the bars eventually cut through the foam leading to them digging in

I only had the bar issue on the 1.2, on the seat back…oddly it had lumbar adjuster. I stripped it down and removed the offending spring bar.

 

[koalar]

I only had the bar issue on the 1.2, on the seat back…oddly it had lumbar adjuster. I stripped it down and removed the offending spring bar.

Yep

I have also had the bar under the front dig in

Going to depend on milage, roads, weight of drive and probably things I haven't considered

A Class they aren't, but probably only weigh half

Not a big deal breaker, as there are solutions, but worth considering especially if you you have a bad back

The 90 miles a day by @Adam427 is likely to be over 3 hour a day, but this is only a guess

 

[AndyRKett]

Real world mpg for a panda multijet is going to be in the 60s for someone who does a longer commute I had the mk2b punto with the same engine and this would easily manage the claimed 62mpg on my 30mile commute to and from work every day, and that was a heavier car than the panda. You can knock a bit off for the 4x4 and the fuel economy went down on later cars as they introduced things to improve emissions, but in a smaller newer 4x4 panda I’d still expect to get somewhere around 60mpg more for the 2wd

Petrol panda anywhere from 50-55mpg depending how careful you are, puntos with the same engine were more in the late 40mpgs

 

[porta]

Yep

I have also had the bar under the front dig in

Going to depend on milage, roads, weight of drive and probably things I haven't considered

A Class they aren't, but probably only weigh half

Not a big deal breaker, as there are solutions, but worth considering especially if you you have a bad back

The 90 miles a day by @Adam427 is likely to be over 3 hour a day, but this is only a guess

As I said, never had a long distance seat issue. By comparison, we drove upto Scotland and across to the Orkneys with friends. They had a much newer golf and they were wanting more stops than us, and that WAS to stretch their legs
From experience, I can’t get comfy in my mates Mini, it’s like being strapped to a board

 

[porta]

To qualify my comments on comfort, I have work related degenerative arthritis, mostly in my right hip and lower back, and recently diagnosed with it now in my left hip!
If you’re going to test drive, make sure they let you have a long one!

 

[MrMagoo]

I occasionally do 300 mile trips in my 1.2, and it is the best car for city traffic (and ULEZ compliant!), but if you're doing 90 miles daily then I would look at something more suitable. I was looking at the current FIAT Tipo which I think looks pretty cool.
If I need a big car I would hire one but the Panda suits me fine.

 

[Ricardo Silva]

I have a 1.2 60hp panda from 2008 and all i can say its the most reliable economical car i've ever had or heard of. 4,5l\100km, 165000km and only problem was power steering loss on a few ocasions but solved with simple restart and after new battery solved completely. Everything original appart from brake pads, cam belt\water pump and 6 new tires. Its fun to drive, cute to look at and a very good ownership experience. Downside? Small, a lot less safe in case of colision with a modern panzer and is slow but very capable on any road. Unfortunately this type of car is no longer produced, not even by Fiat or Dacia. Direct injection, turbos and eletronics are the norm. They are not made to last but to look good and impress the buyer for a few years.

 

[koalar]

This site allows you to filter by engine and or type

There's a few 4x4 cross listed

Fiat Panda MPG - Actual MPG from 374 Fiat Panda owners

The most accurate Fiat Panda MPG estimates based on real world results of 4.6 million miles driven in 374 Fiat Pandas

www.fuelly.com

 

[epifant]

Go FWD and petrol. I get about 30 mpg from my 1.2 69 bhp petrol 4x4. Had I used it for commuting I would feel the 4x4 was wasted fuel 95% of the time.

Take the EVO6 on the days it's required? I used my Delta Integrale for winter commuting many years ago, much more entertaining then the 155 000 mile Punto I also had at the time.