Technical Fiat Panda 1.2 2010 Rust issue and possible solutions for it?

[kavil]

Hello Everyone, i am looking for a Fiat Panda 2010 with 65k km, interior is in really good condition but the underside makes me little worried. There is oily resiedue around the oil pan but it looks semi-old and before and after test drive i did not see

any new fluid on the oil pan or around the car. Exhaust is rusted out a lot and back axis are also rusted, I am not experienced with the rust repair so best i can do clean it and cover it with rust converter and spray or buy new pieces and replace them.

I do not know how bad they are but if possible please look at the photos and give me suggestion about it. Should i proceed forward with the buy and change it by myself or should i avoid it?

 

[kavil]

I would like to try rear view camera ( not that it is needed with this small city car, but rather new toy to play and try to install it.)

In wire loom going to back rear light. Which color cable belongs to rear light? And which place is the best place to tap into it.

For cable routing would it be better to go in ceiling or in floor side?

Lastly which type of fuse is used inside the driver side fuse box with ODB port?

I looked the fuse box under the hood and there are many types of there. I want to buy correct type of fuse tap- piggyback for it.

I like to share info is someone in the future searches for it. So I installed a rear view camera, tapped into the fuse box near the ODB (it's mini type) and used a piggyback fuse holder and extra 5Amp. I dismantled the standard cigarette lighter adapter and crimped earth and + and connected. Now it starts when I turn the ignition on and stops when I turn it off. The wiring was really easy on the ceiling and pillars on the left side. I routed the rear camera to the right side. My car is LHD and the reverse light is on the right cluster. I checked with a multimeter. Rear light cable is on the bottom of the pin only white colour without stripes. I also tapped it so that the camera also goes into reverse mode as soon as I activate reverse gear.


I also changed the auxiliary belt and the timing belt. This time 5pk1145 The timing belt was not easy, it took a lot of elbow grease to get it to fit exactly on the same teeth. (we fitted 2 times with 1 tooth off and had to start again)

I had no timing kit to fix the camshaft and crankshaft so we used old Tippex markings as well as our new markings. So far the car has done around 100km. I hope it does not explode like last time.

I also changed the wipers front and back. They were really noise and new bosch aero ones are so far really good. I hopd it stays quiet like that.

 

[kavil]

The thermostat should be closed when the engine coolant it cold

It should not allow any coolant at all to pass for the first couple of minuites

The needle does drop if you switch the fans on fast, but should soon stabilise again

At about 5 Celsius a 3 mile drive is half way, with the fans on number 2

After changing the Thermostat i thought all my problems will go away, it was so for couple thousand kilometers. (car is at 93500 at the moment and thermostat changed around 91000. It was working fine and directly solved the coolant temperature not reaching to the half way mark.

But yesterday i noticed something. The coolant needle was around %35-40 percent and not at 50% as it should be after 20 minutes of drive. I also climbed up and down on hills with 3500-4000 rpm to heat the engine and it is rising but as soon as i remove my foot from throttle or drive on higher gear around 2000 rpm it settles around 35-40% coolant temprature. I know faulty thermostat is possible but i confirmed that it is working using boiling water and it really opened around 85-90 degrees and worked for first few thousand kilometers.

Would cold outer temperature prevent motor to reach operating temperature after 25 minutes of driving? I highly doubt it and afraid that new thermostat is already broken but i want to ask you people once again.

 

[koalar]

As long as there is enough coolant in the radiator

Heaters should blow hit even at idle

It should just be the thermostat

Usual for one to fail so early on

I wonder if part of the rubber washer has got lodged in the new thermostat

 

[kavil]

As long as there is enough coolant in the radiator

Heaters should blow hit even at idle

It should just be the thermostat

Usual for one to fail so early on

I wonder if part of the rubber washer has got lodged in the new thermostat

Which rubber do you mean exactly? It has enough coolant (exactly at Max level) heater was working fine around 2 fan level. I turned it off but it did not impact the temperature gauge. it only climbed briefly to the 50% when i give gas with high rpm and it fell down to 35-40 pretty quickly. i will try again the pipe holding test. i can also remove the thermostat to inspect it again on the weekend.

really bummer if i have to do everything 2 times... first the aux belt ripped and scared everyone, now the new thermostat might be faulty again.

But hey i was the one to learn and understand cars so i should be grateful for the opportunity.

 

[koalar]

The seal rubber perishes and disintegrates, I wonder if part of the old one has lodged in the new thermostat


this bit that normally fails, just visible in your photo

 

[jrkitching]

Would cold outer temperature prevent motor to reach operating temperature after 25 minutes of driving

No.

i confirmed that it is working using boiling water

This only confirms that it's opening; it doesn't confirm that it's sealing properly when it's closed. And if it doesn't seal properly when closed, it'll do exactly what yours is doing now.

Every failed Panda thermostat I've seen passes the boiling water test.

afraid that new thermostat is already broken

I think that's most likely what's happened. Some of the aftermarket thermostats are not of the best quality.

It's cheap and easy to replace it again, so that's what I'd do next.

 

[kavil]

Thanks for the answers @koalar and @jrkitching . I will look at it whenever i have time. Maybe a dumb question but is it possible to change the inner rubber seal of the thermostat instead of just buying a new unit directly? it seems awfully wasteful to throw something if i can just change the circular rubber sealer. It might does not make a sense on mechanics perspective because the piece is only 10-15€ worth but if possible i would like to try it on the old thermostat first.
If not possible, I changed it with FEBI make and model thermostat, would you suggest another brand this time?

 

[koalar]

Never swapped the seal or seen one for sale

It's normal the coolant going acidic that causes the washer to fail

If I had a choice, but didn't want to spend for an original

I would use an Original Birth as my preferred second choice

Not a fan of FEBI take a look at there Panda rear bump stops, the don't even fit properly, the locating lug is the wrong shape, they aren't the same quality as they use to be,

 

[kavil]

I will receive PH tester from a friend of mine tomorrow. Which PH should coolant be? I also confirmed that thermostat is broken. The top pipe is warm without reaching middle therefore it is leaking water internally like the first thermostat that i replaced.

One more question, the handle of the glovebox is somewhat broken, is it possible to dismantle it and change it, i could not see any screws near the handle does it mean it needs to be changed as complete lid?

 

[koalar]

I will receive PH tester from a friend of mine tomorrow. Which PH should coolant be? I also confirmed that thermostat is broken. The top pipe is warm without reaching middle therefore it is leaking water internally like the first thermostat that i replaced

They are normally slight alkaline

Anywhere between 8 and 9 is normal

 

[koalar]

One more question, the handle of the glovebox is somewhat broken, is it possible to dismantle it and change it, i could not see any screws near the handle does it mean it needs to be changed as complete lid?

No idea

There are at least two different versions, and later cars trim is also a different colour

There should be a part number molded onto the door


Secondhand would be option they don't normally break


If you change the whole glovebox, pop the passenger airbag switch out first, otherwise the rear of the switch will get broken off

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Thanks for the answers @koalar and @jrkitching . I will look at it whenever i have time. Maybe a dumb question but is it possible to change the inner rubber seal of the thermostat instead of just buying a new unit directly? it seems awfully wasteful to throw something if i can just change the circular rubber sealer. It might does not make a sense on mechanics perspective because the piece is only 10-15€ worth but if possible i would like to try it on the old thermostat first.
If not possible, I changed it with FEBI make and model thermostat, would you suggest another brand this time?

I bought a Febi thermostat in November last year for my 1.1, failed last month after about 1500 miles! Put a BGA one in it from my local factors and no issues yet. Maybe a bad batch from Febi? I will add the BGA one has an AWFUL casting and had bits that needed filing off the gasket face!

 

[irc]

+1 on the failed FEBI thermostats. Lasted about 3 months. Owner-supllied part.
I usually fit Original Birth or Genuine FIAT ones, not had an in-service failure of one of them yet.

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

+1 on the failed FEBI thermostats. Lasted about 3 months. Owner-supllied part.
I usually fit Original Birth or Genuine FIAT ones, not had an in-service failure of one of them yet.

Interesting, not just me then! Original lasted about 13 years so it had a good run, I thought the febi would have lasted at least 5!

 

[kavil]

My Febi stat only lasted 4 weeks...

I searched but i could not find Birth supplier in Switzerland, Febi is also out of stock so replacement is not possible, amazon offered refund on returned item, There was Gates and Mahle brands but both of them said expected delivery somewhere middle May, fastest one was Calorstat so I ordered it. I will change it next week and if the coolant is acidic that one as well. Even though it looks really new from color and clarity perspektive.