Technical Fiat Panda 1.2 2010 Rust issue and possible solutions for it?

[kavil]

Hello Everyone, i am looking for a Fiat Panda 2010 with 65k km, interior is in really good condition but the underside makes me little worried. There is oily resiedue around the oil pan but it looks semi-old and before and after test drive i did not see

any new fluid on the oil pan or around the car. Exhaust is rusted out a lot and back axis are also rusted, I am not experienced with the rust repair so best i can do clean it and cover it with rust converter and spray or buy new pieces and replace them.

I do not know how bad they are but if possible please look at the photos and give me suggestion about it. Should i proceed forward with the buy and change it by myself or should i avoid it?

 

[koalar]

Nothing too serious there

I wait untill the exhaust actually starts to blow, there are double skinned, they normally last a couple of tears after the outer skin has long gone

The sump looks to be in good condion for its year, at least the side pictured, the oil it from above the join, topping up, crank seal, a little weep will help with preserving the underside

The axle isn't too bad but need preserving, someone done a guide somewhere I will dig a link out

Look like oil on the rear springs from a shock leaking, if so both shocks will need replacing, here in the UK the rear spring has a 50/50 chance of failing an MOT, again it's a simple job to fix now, it's been recently done, again I will find a link

You will need to check the other side of the sump and the steel coolant pipe at the front of the enginel

 

[koalar]

I would probably go the wire brush a smooth in grease route

There some links in this thread on different approaches

Rear axle rusty | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi everyone, My Eleganza is still going strong, but on my MOT I got an advisory (monitor & repair if necessary) about my rusty rear axle. Looks a bit scabby but still working & not yet an MOT failure point. My question is...Are Eleganza replacement axles easy to come by & reasonable cost...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[kavil]

Thank you for your reply. I am currently in between 2 Pandas. I am having hard time deciding, i would like to spend time reparing things and learn along the way but it needs to be in salvageable condition, i can do all sort of DIY (without welding) but i am not that experienced when it comes to rust therefore i need help from you guys.

One is the pictures above,
2010 model
65t km
1.2 Dynamic Benzin motor
A/C
central remote locking
pristine interior but

rusty back axle, oily sump and right pulling on hard emergency brake (i do not know what needs to be corrected but i suspect brakes), and needs to be prepared for the MOT in Switzerland (last test was on 2020 so if i buy it i need to make it roadworth pretty quickly)
(4 summer tires additionally they are not good but rims are usable)


another option that i have is

2007 model
70t km
1.1 active Benzin motor
has front end parking damage which repaired and MOT is already passed from the seller so it is good to go for another 2 years,
no A/C unit
no remote central locking
some damage to interior(missing window handles on the back, single folding back seat, broken mirror adjuster, general scratches) but nothing serious. only 4 tires on the vehicle and no additional wheels

Undercarriage is as good as new if i am not mistaken, sump and other components are not rusted as well and no undercoating if i see correctly.

Technically i am more inclined about the Rust free 1.1 Active version but it is extremely basic and lacks A/C and central locking and mediocre interior which pushes me to the other one which definitely needs a work done for the MOT but i am little afraid to be honest. Price wise they both the same.

Here is the photo of the 1.1 Active panda

 

[koalar]

Depends on a lot of things

1.2 is better if it's hilly

On the flat there's not much difference, I have both

1.1 is lower insurance here in the uk

2010 is lower road tax here in the uk

Photo 3 show possible hydraulic leak from the wheel cylinder

Later years have better resale

The 1.1 looks better looked after
The 1.2 needs some love. Nothing looks expence, if you are doing it yourself

Here in the UK garage labour soon adds up

 

[kavil]

I am thinking about "Wechselnummer" in Switzerland, it makes it possible to use 1 license plate with 2 cars therefore paying only 1 yearly tax (only the expensive one) Insurance is the similar issue, it wont make a lot of difference.

(quick question, does Panda has only 1 Reverse light on the right side or both sides?)

What do you mean exactly with little oil will protect it? Is it normal to have this much oil on the outside of the oil pan? i though something is wrong with the crankshaft seal but i could not take a good look only from the top or bottom of the car without removing any cover etc.

Photo 3 could be fluid leak as you said or it could be rain, test drive day was rainy but on other photos we do not have similar leakage so that might mean leak as you said.

I am living in very steep location.

1.2 one serviced only 2 times in 65t km, 1.1 Serviced 3 times

I can do it myself but afraid if i am biting something i can not chew. but if i understand correctly depending on the circumstances your choice would be to get newer and stronger model and take care it without going to garage.

Or buying older more basic version with great undercarriage and living in 60s without any central lock and A/C unit and meh eh interior.

I need to make quick part list and possible cost summary. please feel free to add possible pieces to the list

2 new coil springs
2 new shocks
rust converter
exhaust silencer and rubber holders
Complete back and front brake disks and drums with new shoes and cylenders
(maybe timing belt and waterpump but i am not sure if they are a must)
complete new service with all the filters and new oil and coolant.

 

[koalar]

2 new coil springs

The originals will probably clean up fine
Less than £20 each new, very easy job, two bolts

2 new shocks

Less than £25 each

rust converter

I use a wire bush £2.50 on a grinder
And zinc primer £6 per 400ml can, one should be enough

exhaust silencer and rubber holders

Probably not need yet, front around £30 and rear backbox £30, plus some paste

Complete back and front brake disks and drums with new shoes and cylenders

Rears are less than £80 complete, they do come up on offer from time to time I payed around £50 at euro car parts when they were doing a 50% off voucher weekend

Does not include drums, they are normaly good for 200,000 miles

And worse case around £35 for the fronts, 50/50 whether the discs are needed

(maybe timing belt and waterpump but i am not sure if they are a must)

A BGA cam timing belt kit is £35
I never bothered with the water pump £33 plus you will need to add some gasket seal

complete new service with all the filters and new oil and coolant.

Plus a few hidden costs, timing kit, brake fluid and so on

All the standard parts are cheap here in the UK, you might have to shop around a bit for offers.

Until you look at the brakes it's hard to say, often pulling to one side just need a good clean


The price of tyres soon adds up a new here in the UK it's around £160 for a full set of

 

[jrkitching]

I'd agree with @koalar; for a 2010 Panda, there's nothing there that I wouldn't expect to see, and I don't think this one is actually too bad.

Exhaust is rusted out a lot and back axis are also rusted, I am not experienced with the rust repair so best i can do clean it and cover it with rust converter and spray or buy new pieces and replace them.

Once the beam is this rusty, painting it in situ is likely to do more harm than good, You'll never be able to prepare the surface properly, and it'll just keep rusting under the paint. Water then gets trapped between the paint and the metal, leading to more rapid corrosion.

The easy way to deal with this is to wait until it's totally dry (summertime maybe!), then brush off the loose rust and smear it all over with the thickest grease you can find.

If you want to paint it, you'll need to remove it from the car and have it shotblasted to have a meaningful chance of the paint adhering properly. At least one person here has gone to the effort of having it hot dip galvanised after shotblasting; do that, and it'll be the last part of the car left standing once the rest of it has rusted away.

My experience of using rust converters is that they don't leave a surface that's sound enough to paint over. You need to strip all the corrosion off back to bare metal if you want a lasting result.

I'd just leave the exhaust until it actually fails, then replace it complete.

One thing that is worth keeping an eye on is the bracket that attaches the front part of the exhaust to the gearbox; this is often found to be in poor condition and often rusts away. You can see it in your first picture. Yours actually still appears sound, but if it gets any worse, replace it (possible without removing the exhaust), since it's needed to stop any movement of the exhaust from damaging the manifold where it attaches to the head. There aren't many 2010 Pandas in the UK that still have this original bracket, so yours is actually less corroded than most.

The sump doesn't look too bad either; wipe it over with an oily rag after each oil change, and it'll likely last the rest of the life of the car.

Actually the whole thing looks pretty good underneath; we've seen far worse here, on newer cars than this.

 

[koalar]

40K miles

It's a baby

Mine both did 200K

 

[The Panda Nut]

First car looks good. A bit of TLC may be needed.
Second car looks excellent.

 

[Yolanda]

I agree with all the above on the 1200 pics. I've seen worse. As has been said get the wire brush out. It's easy with a jack and axle stands to drop/swing the rear axle beam down to remove the springs and get a wire brush attachment on an electric drill to clean the spring pans and the beam. Then a good coating of old engine oil (that's what I use) once every couple of years to keep it all in check

 

[kavil]

I thank everyone for their replies and opinions. I know all engines are sensitive against oil change but how good are Fiat FIRE engines against intermittent oil change? It is really sad that people just do not care for cars and use them as it is.

1.2 only got 2 oil changes in his 65t Km and 1.1 one has total of 3 oil changes. (There is no bubbling or milky residue under the oil cap, similarly no residue under the radiator reservoir cap either in both cars)


koalar told "You will need to check the other side of the sump and the steel coolant pipe at the front of the enginel"
but i did not understand exactly what he mean. I will go for another look at the car soon. I will make note of everything i read here and check them on the second visit. I am open to additional suggestions.

does Panda has only 1 Reverse light on the right side or both sides?

What are chronic problems of this car that i need to look at-control?

Thank you

 

[koalar]

One reverse light
One fog light

 

[koalar]

Bottom of the sills just in front of the rear wheel

Knock on it, see if it's gone thin

When they go there it's not cheap to fix properly

Don't worry about the coolant pipe there cheap enough as you are doing the work yourself

Shove a finger through the inspection on the bellhousing and see if it's oily on the inside, engine Off obviously. Not easy to fix, but not dear if you are happy to drop the gearbox


The 1.1 is not too fusy on oil as long as its topped up

The 1.2 if its a VVT a little more so, wrong grade can Clog the VVT solenoid filter and but the engine into limp mode, still not a big deal and a free fix

Make sure all the gears work including reverse

The engine isn't so easy, they aren't the quietest

No gurgling bubble type noises., At startup or shut down
No blue smoke from the exhaust at startup,

 

[koalar]

You have to check both sides of the sump

Normally it's the front that fails as in this case

But it does fail the other way the front looks fine but the back is corroded

This is the same sump from both sides, not mine

Not such a big problem on the panda like it was on the punto

 

[kavil]

Bottom of the sills just in front of the rear wheel

Knock on it, see if it's gone thin

When they go there it's not cheap to fix properly

Don't worry about the coolant pipe there cheap enough as you are doing the work yourself

Shove a finger through the inspection on the bellhousing and see if it's oily on the inside, engine Off obviously. Not easy to fix, but not dear if you are happy to drop the gearbox


The 1.1 is not too fusy on oil as long as its topped up

The 1.2 if its a VVT a little more so, wrong grade can Clog the VVT solenoid filter and but the engine into limp mode, still not a big deal and a free fix

Make sure all the gears work including reverse

The engine isn't so easy, they aren't the quietest

No gurgling bubble type noises., At startup or shut down
No blue smoke from the exhaust at startup,

I saw sill area in other Panda which was completely corroded. I will look that in this as well. Incase back side of the oil sump is similar to your photo. How bad is it? I watched few replacement videos, new sump is cheap but it seems it takes great amount of effort to remove old oil sump.


I also searched for inspection hole in the bellhousing but only find close up pictures of the hole in this forum. Where is it exactly? It should be oil free right? If i see/feel oil there that means gearbox needs to be dropped and something (maybe a seal) needs to be changed if i understand correctly.

Where is the VVT solenoid located (if present) on 1.2 Panda? I will look for it as well.

Thank you

 

[jrkitching]

Where is the VVT solenoid located (if present) on 1.2 Panda?

In the cam cover; there'll be a blanking plug if it's not there.

Only present on the 69HP Euro5 cars from mid/late 2010; 60HP Euro 4 cars won't have VVT.

 

[koalar]

Here's mine blocked on a 2010

Pretty common if the oil hasn't been changed or some work has been done on the head

No parts needed just one screw and clean with a tooth brush

Near the oil cap

It can put the engine in to a low power mode, P0011 if my memory is correct


Sump isn't a nice job, at home on a driveway. Exhaust is in the way and it's stuck on with silicone, fairly easy on a garage ramp and an air chisel, never seen one fail on corrosion on the panda. A couple have had the rear gasket weeping a little, Puntos use to fail all the time, garages use to put a fiberglass patch over small areas if the customer wanted a cheaper fix,

Yes the inside of the inspection hole should be dry light brown clutch dust, wet black gear oil the gearbox points to the input shaft seal and/or bearing gone, parts aren't that expensive but by the time you've add sealant and a few other bits that might as well be changed at the same time it around £100 in parts and taking your time on a drive less than a day, helps if you have a helper, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me just get the price knocked down to compensate
Here with a torch shining at it

And inside

You will probably have to move some wires out of the way, some may have a black plastic cover

These engines should pump out nice hot air at idle, if it's pumping out cold or warm at idle it's a risk

Low coolant
Air lock
Head gasket

 

[kavil]

This fiat panda community is just awesome. Thanks everyone for their help. I will keep you guys updated. A strange question i have.

Can you fit 2 big sized airline belly luggages and 2 small 8kg carry on baggages in fiat panda? I will need to take my family to the airport soon and we will be 3 people in car with 2 big and 2 small luggaes and extra 2 handpack etc. i believe it is possible to fold one seat and put big baggage there but i want to ask it nevertheless. In internet there is not many information regarding this. Pure luggage liter capacity is not that useful most of the time.

 

[koalar]

Most older pandas don't have split fold rear as standard

My 2010 eco does, I don't know if it became standard

Even without sliit fold you should be able to move the front passenger seat forwards and use the spare unused seat space for the big bags and put the hand luggage in the rear

I have taken 4 large people the airport with two carry on and to two medium size cases, it was a while back I can't remeber if they had the carry on bags on their laps

Boot space is poor, but rear load space is exerlent

It's had various tables, chairs, washing mashines and so on it the boot, it's very deceptive, high roof and no rear suspension turrets in the way