Currently in an unusual dilemma where I have ONE "H" rated tyre (on the rear) when they should be all "V" rated. Have a mix of brands - Michelin Excellence (fill a little 'spongy') on the rear axle and Hankook Ventus Prime 2 (crap) on the front all in a 195/55 x 16. Checking the Bravo and GP models none of them seem to need a V rated tyre in 16 inch. GPA comes with 17s+ where the V rating is the 'norm' in a 45 profile.

Realise that you are allowed to run a winter tyre with a lower speed rating but this would be a 'Summer' tyre.

At some stage one tyre got replaced and some tyre fitter pulled a 'fast one' and fitted the lower speed rated H tyre. They generally come in around twenty notes cheaper.

Car has the T-jet engine and can on the autobahn reach 134mph. Currently not too happy with the front end handling on the car and I reckon it is to do with the Hankook tyres as opposed to the wrong rated tyre on the back. Having different makes is probably not helping 'things'.

Manual states "V" rating but in the non turbo and MJ engines "H" is fine.

Am I in breech of anything legal (besides not complying with the handbook) having one tyre with a wrong speed rating?

Wiki has a reference to the rating on German autobahns. Notice the 'bit' about the sticker !
The tires must be approved for the vehicle's top speed; winter tires (mud + snow) for lower speeds (i.e. cheaper than high-speed tires) are allowed, the driver has to have a sticker in the cockpit reminding of the maximum speed.

loveshandbags said:

Currently in an unusual dilemma where I have ONE "H" rated tyre (on the rear) when they should be all "V" rated. Have a mix of brands - Michelin Excellence (fill a little 'spongy') on the rear axle and Hankook Ventus Prime 2 (crap) on the front all in a 195/55 x 16. Checking the Bravo and GP models none of them seem to need a V rated tyre in 16 inch. GPA comes with 17s+ where the V rating is the 'norm' in a 45 profile.

Realise that you are allowed to run a winter tyre with a lower speed rating but this would be a 'Summer' tyre.

At some stage one tyre got replaced and some tyre fitter pulled a 'fast one' and fitted the lower speed rated H tyre. They generally come in around twenty notes cheaper.

Car has the T-jet engine and can on the autobahn reach 134mph. Currently not too happy with the front end handling on the car and I reckon it is to do with the Hankook tyres as opposed to the wrong rated tyre on the back. Having different makes is probably not helping 'things'.

Manual states "V" rating but in the non turbo and MJ engines "H" is fine.

Am I in breech of anything legal (besides not complying with the handbook) having one tyre with a wrong speed rating?

Wiki has a reference to the rating on German autobahns. Notice the 'bit' about the sticker !
The tires must be approved for the vehicle's top speed; winter tires (mud + snow) for lower speeds (i.e. cheaper than high-speed tires) are allowed, the driver has to have a sticker in the cockpit reminding of the maximum speed.

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To be honest, I actually find your post a bit frightening! I would personally never find myself in a postion whereby I'm mixing different tyre patterns/brands/speed/ load ratings, irrespective of which axle they're fitted to. For starters, if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in an a serious accident and your vehicle is taken away from the scene and inspected by a Police accident investigation team and subsequently an insurers own assessor, having tyres fitted of incorrect speed or load rating applicable to the vehicle or not as stated in your handbook, could invalidate your insurance and of course, if you are subsequently found to be blameworthy for the accident, it won't help your case any.

Sounds like I'm preaching a bit, but if I were you I'd start a process whereby you are aiming to have all four tyres of the same brand/pattern and speed/load rating. I currently have Pirelli P7's all round on my Cadillac, but once they wear out, I'll be changing them for Cooper branded tyres. The tyre patterns between the two brands in my own rim size and profile are not hugely different. I think if you are going to wear tyres of different brands on your car, then they should be as similar as possible to help prevent any handling issues.

frupi said:

To be honest, I actually find your post a bit frightening! I would personally never find myself in a postion whereby I'm mixing different tyre patterns/brands/speed/ load ratings, irrespective of which axle they're fitted to. For starters, if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in an a serious accident and your vehicle is taken away from the scene and inspected by a Police accident investigation team and subsequently an insurers own assessor, having tyres fitted of incorrect speed or load rating applicable to the vehicle or not as stated in your handbook, could invalidate your insurance and of course, if you are subsequently found to be blameworthy for the accident, it won't help your case any.

Sounds like I'm preaching a bit, but if I were you I'd start a process whereby you are aiming to have all four tyres of the same brand/pattern and speed/load rating. I currently have Pirelli P7's all round on my Cadillac, but once they wear out, I'll be changing them for Cooper branded tyres. The tyre patterns between the two brands in my own rim size and profile are not hugely different. I think if you are going to wear tyres of different brands on your car, then they should be as similar as possible to help prevent any handling issues.

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Here are the tyres. Note the H & V on the back. Patterns are fairly similar. Some brands on the same axle. Understand that the V rated is a stronger tyre and aside from the exceeding the maximum speed it is supposed to 'cope' with more 'aggressive' driving. I would guess that they are slightly heavier.

Got a price of 2 stock Continental Contact 2s in 195/55 x 16. 'Advance tyres' eventually budged on the €150 price to €135 and I was been pawned off that the H rating was fine and I should have no issues. 2 other tyre outfits did the exact same thing on Bridgestone ER300 again with Minerva at €80 on a H rated.

I honestly believe that the tyre fitter is wrong telling you that having a different speed rating would be fine. Say you are capable of maxing out on the Autobahn at 150mph, your V rated tyre is designed to cope with a speed of up to 150mph. If however (as in your own case) one of your rims is shod with a H rated tyre, which has a speed rating of 130mph and it suffers a blow out when you're maxed out, then, probably, good bye Earth, hello St Peter!

I realise that it is probably extremely rare that you will find yourself in such a position anyway, and the speed rating between the H and the V is only 20mph, but really, do you thing the risk is acceptable?

Again, I would put the recommended profile/speed/load rated tyres as is stated in your handbook, that way you can be sure you are staying legal. As far as load rating is concerned, that is another area which is extremely important when buying new tyres and shouldn't be compromised. When I bought the Vredestein Snowtrac 3's for the wife's POP, I ensured that the profile/speed and load rating was identical to the summer tyres to ensure there were no insurance issues if anything unfortunate were to happen.

I'm aware too that you amongst all people will know how to check the age of your tyres, but have a look to see how old they are too. I have caught out a tyre fitter who fitted two 'brand new' tyres to my Neon, which when I checked them before I left the tyre fitting bay, were in fact three years old. This is unacceptable and I would personally never accept having a tyre fitted to any vehicle of mine which was over six months old from the date stamped on the sidewall. Anyway, we had had 'words' and the tyres were changed for a premium brand at no extra cost because they didn't have newer tyres of the type I had asked to have put on.

Interesting how you don't like the Hankook Ventus Prime tyres, I had those on my old Primera (RIP, I just found out the old girl has finally gone to the scrapyard last weekend) and I personally found them ok. Like I said in my previous post though, I'm going to be shifting to Cooper Zeon CS6 tyres sometime in the near future. They are American tyres but British designed and they seem to have a good reputation.

frupi said:

I honestly believe that the tyre fitter is wrong telling you that having a different speed rating would be fine. Say you are capable of maxing out on the Autobahn at 150mph, your V rated tyre is designed to cope with a speed of up to 150mph. If however (as in your own case) one of your rims is shod with a H rated tyre, which has a speed rating of 130mph and it suffers a blow out when you're maxed out, then, probably, good bye Earth, hello St Peter!

I realise that it is probably extremely rare that you will find yourself in such a position anyway, and the speed rating between the H and the V is only 20mph, but really, do you thing the risk is acceptable?

Again, I would put the recommended profile/speed/load rated tyres as is stated in your handbook, that way you can be sure you are staying legal. As far as load rating is concerned, that is another area which is extremely important when buying new tyres and shouldn't be compromised. When I bought the Vredestein Snowtrac 3's for the wife's POP, I ensured that the profile/speed and load rating was identical to the summer tyres to ensure there were no insurance issues if anything unfortunate were to happen.

I'm aware too that you amongst all people will know how to check the age of your tyres, but have a look to see how old they are too. I have caught out a tyre fitter who fitted two 'brand new' tyres to my Neon, which when I checked them before I left the tyre fitting bay, were in fact three years old. This is unacceptable and I would personally never accept having a tyre fitted to any vehicle of mine which was over six months old from the date stamped on the sidewall. Anyway, we had had 'words' and the tyres were changed for a premium brand at no extra cost because they didn't have newer tyres of the type I had asked to have put on.

Interesting how you don't like the Hankook Ventus Prime tyres, I had those on my old Primera (RIP, I just found out the old girl has finally gone to the scrapyard last weekend) and I personally found them ok. Like I said in my previous post though, I'm going to be shifting to Cooper Zeon CS6 tyres sometime in the near future. They are American tyres but British designed and they seem to have a good reputation.

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The load rating on all the tyres are '87'. This might be more important than the speed rating. The only 'breech' is 4mph over the "H" rating plus it's different to the manual.

Top speed of the car is 134mph (it's only a fraction over 130mph) so if I'm on the autobahn on the "H" rated I think St. Peter would be left waiting.

Found some good material on the VOLVO site !

It seems that the age of a tyre is not a MOT failure.
Having a "H" rated tyre is in breech of the the Motor regulations.

I'm starting to think that it is all a bit mad. Aside from the fact that I don't like the tyres they look perfectly normal and only for I was looking to change them I would never have realised that the back rear was a "H" rated. The OH would never have been none the wiser if she had bought the car.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost.php?p=1064245&postcount=25

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showpost.php?p=1066251&postcount=35

The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/3/made
7. The speed capability of all tyres fitted shall be not less than the maximum design speed of the vehicle.

loveshandbags said:

It seems that the age of a tyre is not a MOT failure.
Having a "H" rated tyre is in breech of the the Motor regulations.

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Yes, I should have been a little more clear regarding the age of a tyre. Indeed, I know it is not an MOT failure. The problem arises with 'new' tyre age, is how they have been stored. You and I will never know exactly what conditions tyre stockists store their tyres. In any case, it is generally accepted, that tyres over six years of age, are susceptible to compound degeneration over that time and they certainly won't be of the same quality as a brand new recently produced tyre. Obviously, buying a 'new' tyre that is already three years old for instance, has already in lots of ways, effectively halfed the life of the tyre. Not something that is personally acceptable to me.

Did loads more reading about the age and storage of tyres and the most sensible concensus of opinion is to make sure you ask any tyre fitter before they fit the tyres or payment, permission for you to physically inspect the tyre they intend fitting in order to check its overall condition and age. Any reputable tyre fitter would/should not refuse this request, as it is your right to inspect goods prior to the work being carried out. Tyres over ten years old from their date stamp, should definitely never, ever be fitted.

Incidentally, I have personally followed this advice for at least the last 8 years. Sadly, Joe Public will on the whole, continue to remain ignorant regarding the age of tyres being fitted to their vehicle, be too embarrassed to ask the tyre fitter about tyre inspection or genuinely not care about the rubber that's being chucked on their motor. Safety should always be the priority.

“Michelin Excellence”?

Hankook Ventus Prime2 are OE fit for Ford, BMW, VW, etc – how likely is it they were awarded Ford Q1 (or whatever) without it being discovered they were “crap”?

Joking aside – if an imbalance has set-in & uneven wear developed, then it can be difficult to recover … it tends to get worse.

120130

Caravadossi said:

“Michelin Excellence”?

Hankook Ventus Prime2 are OE fit for Ford, BMW, VW, etc – how likely is it they were awarded Ford Q1 (or whatever) without it being discovered they were “crap”?

Joking aside – if an imbalance has set-in & uneven wear developed, then it can be difficult to recover … it tends to get worse.

120130

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They can be a hugh variation in a particular tyre across sizes. If you look at the EVO test report below
http://www.tyremen.co.uk/help-and-advice/evo-summer-test-2010.aspx
the Hankook came 2nd (on an 18inch) in 2012 and 2nd last (on 17 inch) in 2011. I have a copy of the 'EVO tyre test 2010' and the Hankook (ok a different model the Ventus V12 EVO) also came 2nd last (17s). In the dry handling section it commented that having them on the car made it feel like it had done 100K miles and was subjectively the worse in that section.

The tyre fitters didn't rate them and commented that it's only a 'Far eastern tyre'. Realise that they are doing well on the 'big' sizes and are getting fitted by the top names.

I reckon the key problem is that the 16s are too small for the car and it needs 17s. The Bravos are 'running' 225/55 in the 16s and the extra footprint is probably making all the difference.

Prices here for the Contis 2 in V rated are €175 with a week lead time and €150 for the H which I wouldn't risk now in size 195/55x16. Eirtyres are showing €108 but no availability at the moment. No Conti 3 available yet. Understand that Conti have changed the compounds for longer tyre life some remarking that they didn't last.

As an interim 'fix' I'm of 2 minds to switch the Michelins to the front to see if it makes any difference.

There’s variation between sizes, models & fitments.

But I don’t think it’s valid to argue that …

18” S1 Evo (K107) are at the top end of the league
17” S1 Evo (K107) & V12 Evo (K110) are at the bottom of the league,
& that leads to the conclusion that …

16” Prime2 (K115) are “crap”

The imbalance may not be such a big problem – (say) no-more than running with a nearside list (that most cars develop over-time anyway). I’d probably try (as you say) the K115 on the rear & the odd H on the o/s/f & see what develops – assuming any uneven wear hasn’t gone too far. The dilemma is, whether to replace with premier tyres if the problem persists.

120131

Caravadossi said:

There’s variation between sizes, models & fitments.

But I don’t think it’s valid to argue that …

18” S1 Evo (K107) are at the top end of the league
17” S1 Evo (K107) & V12 Evo (K110) are at the bottom of the league,
& that leads to the conclusion that …

16” Prime2 (K115) are “crap”
120131

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Just to wrap up on the Hankook. There's 2 variants the 'Ultra High performance' one (K105) and the Prime 2 which is the 'Touring summer'

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Hankook/Ventus-Prime-K105.htm
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Hankook/Ventus-Prime2.htm

Here is one test that I could come across on the Prime 2...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Finnish-ECO-Touring-Tyre-Test.htm
and the Prime2 came in at a miserable 9th along with the Linglong, etc.

Looking back on the service history these Prime2's were fitted only 6 months ago (done 4K miles) at a cost of €90+13.5% vat which was in Irish terms 'cheap'. So they were 'value for money' so I will admit to being a bit harsh on saying that they are 'crap'.

The Continental Premium Contact 2s that I had on the Fat 500 were so good it had highlighted the 'Touring nature' of the Hankook Prime 2 tyre.

I have included some relevant articles on rolling resistance which the Hankook are generally good at but in the case of this particular variant it gets the thumbs down on from the 'Finnish' review.

1st: Continental Premium Contact 2
Total: 103.5 / Dry: 29 / Wet: 39 / Rolling Resistance: 8 / Comfort: 9 / Noise: 9 / Overall: 9.5
Positive: Grip and driveability in both the wet and dry
Negative: None mentioned
Overall: The Continental Premium Contact 2 is a convincing tyre, winning in almost every test. Best dry and wet grip and great handling

9th: Hankook Ventus Prime2
Total: 81.4 / Dry: 23 / Wet: 29 / Rolling Resistance: 6 / Comfort: 8 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 7.4
Positive: Excellent aquaplaning resistance
Negative: Wet braking
Overall: The Hankook Ventus Prime 2 is let down by its wet braking and high rolling resistance. Its aquaplaning resistance is excellent and dry driveability good.

Caravadossi said:

The imbalance may not be such a big problem – (say) no-more than running with a nearside list (that most cars develop over-time anyway). I’d probably try (as you say) the K115 on the rear & the odd H on the o/s/f & see what develops – assuming any uneven wear hasn’t gone too far. The dilemma is, whether to replace with premier tyres if the problem persists.
120131

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I must do the swap and see if it makes any difference but I'm leaning towards getting a new set of Contis. It's a pity that the new Contis 3 are not available in 195/55x16 size.

I think it’s argued that Conti have around one-third of the OE market share - but it seems to me that Hankook are knocking chunks out of that.

http://www.hankooktire-eu.com/tires/oe-tires.html

Despite any negative waves from Finland et al BMW 1 series are to get the Ventus Prime2 (K115) as OE in 195/55R16V & 205/55R16W sizes.

See p60 re H-rated tyres
PFM Tests Police Tires Police Fleet Manager Jul-Aug2009
http://www.batogovtires.com/uploads/police tire tests with Tire Rack.pdf

120201

It seems you started trying to convince yourself that you need new tyres for the sake of it, and now you're (probably correctly) deciding that you probably don't!

Firstly, regarding the H tyre.. it's clear that in the real world there's no problem at all, unless the construction or tread pattern of the H and V were different enough to cause a handling imbalance on the same axle .. expecially the front. The H isn't going to explode if you were to run at say 120mph for a short while. Plus these tyres are Michelins, so you would hope to trust the quality. Of course you could get all paranoid about the police and insurance and etc, but since you weren't the person who was sold the wrong tyre I wouldn't worry personally...

As regards the Hankooks.. obviously they've been thrown on as a cheap solution to selling the car with "2 new tyres!!" .. they may be OK or may just be riding on the glory of some Hankooks being used for racing or OEM fitment.

Personally I would put the Michelins on the front and get them used up... you should have a fair idea how long the original fronts lasted. See you you get on with the Hankooks on the back.. in theory the new tyres should have gone there anyway. If you still really don't like them then swap them first, and sell on eBay / classifieds / to a part-worn dealer.

Of course you also seem to be talking yourself into a set of 17's, in which case stick with what you've got until you upgrade!

Caravadossi said:

I think it’s argued that Conti have around one-third of the OE market share - but it seems to me that Hankook are knocking chunks out of that.

http://www.hankooktire-eu.com/tires/oe-tires.html

Despite any negative waves from Finland et al BMW 1 series are to get the Ventus Prime2 (K115) as OE in 195/55R16V & 205/55R16W sizes.

See p60 re H-rated tyres
PFM Tests Police Tires Police Fleet Manager Jul-Aug2009
http://www.batogovtires.com/uploads/police tire tests with Tire Rack.pdf

120201

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I double checked the two models in the Hankook Ventus Prime and it would appear that the K105 is the '1' version and the K115 is the '2' version so the Hankook Ventus Prime 2 (K115) is the same tyre i.e. the most update version.
Came across another test report (Click here) with another variant of the Hankook and it came last with 'Rolling resistance' as the only area that it did well in. This probably explains why it's becoming an OEM for quite a number of car manufacturers.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259483/hankook_ventus_s1_evo.html

That police report was pretty good and explained the difference between the V & the H with the V having an extra belt. It is also a higher performing tyre in the Slalom test.

bluejohn125 said:

It seems you started trying to convince yourself that you need new tyres for the sake of it, and now you're (probably correctly) deciding that you probably don't!

Firstly, regarding the H tyre.. it's clear that in the real world there's no problem at all, unless the construction or tread pattern of the H and V were different enough to cause a handling imbalance on the same axle .. expecially the front. The H isn't going to explode if you were to run at say 120mph for a short while. Plus these tyres are Michelins, so you would hope to trust the quality. Of course you could get all paranoid about the police and insurance and etc, but since you weren't the person who was sold the wrong tyre I wouldn't worry personally...

As regards the Hankooks.. obviously they've been thrown on as a cheap solution to selling the car with "2 new tyres!!" .. they may be OK or may just be riding on the glory of some Hankooks being used for racing or OEM fitment.

Personally I would put the Michelins on the front and get them used up... you should have a fair idea how long the original fronts lasted. See you you get on with the Hankooks on the back.. in theory the new tyres should have gone there anyway. If you still really don't like them then swap them first, and sell on eBay / classifieds / to a part-worn dealer.

Of course you also seem to be talking yourself into a set of 17's, in which case stick with what you've got until you upgrade!

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Originally I have planned to put a set of winters on the 16s which given that the car is fitted with Brembos was a major plus !

Since I'm of 2 minds to keep the car for more than a year or 2 (still prefer the 500 to drive around the town) changing to a decent set of tyres in 16s was a 'cheaper' option that a 'new' set of 17s. If I was buying again I would have got one with the 17s and opted for a smaller set of 205/45x17 than the standard 215/45 x 17 (both sizes are in the manual). It seems that the 205s are a good deal lighter than the 215s and are good for unsprung weight.

Dubious on the swap give the 'Slalom' difference between H & V and I doubt that the title of Michelin Excellence will live up to its name. But I'll give it a try.

I did ask the tyre fitters if they would take the 'old' ones off me but they said they that they were not allowed to sell secondhand tyres. I'll take your suggestion on board and put an ad up on Buy&Sell.