General windscreen soaking wet on inside

[daz1985]

hi i did try to tackle this problem based on this thread:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/304870-water-footwell-wet-feet.html

and had the tubes cleared a couple of weeks ago. however i do not think this has solved the issue as the car is still prone to becoming very misty, although i think it may have been worse since i got it cleaned on saturday. (maybe)

i have felt the 4 footwells and none seem especially damp although equally none are bone dry.

any other things i could try to fix/prevent this mist? tbf once the blowers have been on a few mins it does seem to clear and not come back too quick.

also its only the windscreen it affects, and seemingly builds up overnight as its noticable in the morning

thanks

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Has the car got airconditioning fitted

 

[daz1985]

hi no it is not the a/c version it is the diesel multijet

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I take it the air supply is always left to fresh air intake and not air recirculate?

 

[AB100]

Many of my cars over the years have had issues with either wet or frosted windscreen inside, during the winter.

The last car to do it was my 500 Sport. That surprised me a bit. When we replaced it with the Panda 100hp, I expected the same issues. However, the Panda has never been wet or frosted inside. Always assumed this was because of the climate control...

Oh - and our 100hp has the glass roof so has a much bigger acreage to collect condensation.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Its worth noting on the inside of the bulk head there is masses of sound deadening insulation, if you've had issues before its likly this is still damp. Unless you get a dehumidifier in there, it'll only be in the summer with the masses of heat that it'll dry out.

 

[daz1985]

ok thanks guess i'll just live with it for now and see how it goes - not willing to throw money at it in case it doesnt work.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The simple answer here is that there is, for some reason, too much dampness inside the car, and this is condensing on the inside of the screen at night (of course, you know this)

So, are the carpets or mats wet from carrying snow/rain in on your feet? Is there a damp coat or cloth inside the car? Maybe a wet umbrella rolled up in the boot car? Or water sitting in the spare wheel well? You don't need much moisture to form a lot of condensation once the temperature drops.

To dry it all out, go for a long drive with the heating on full, making sure the recirc control is set to 'fresh' air -- the longer you can get warm air blowing thru the car the better chance of it drying. If you can, park it during the day in the sun with the windows open (even just cracked open), this should help too.

You say it was worse after cleaning - as well as the scuttle drains, water ends up finding its way into the doors through the strip at the bottom of the side windows. May be worth checking the drain holes at the bottom of the doors are clear.

By the way, the windscreen gets colder faster as it's facing the sky - that's why you get more condensing there (also why the screen often ices over before the rest of the car windows... true, really!)

 

[daz1985]

The simple answer here is that there is, for some reason, too much dampness inside the car, and this is condensing on the inside of the screen at night (of course, you know this)

So, are the carpets or mats wet from carrying snow/rain in on your feet? Is there a damp coat or cloth inside the car? Maybe a wet umbrella rolled up in the boot car? Or water sitting in the spare wheel well? You don't need much moisture to form a lot of condensation once the temperature drops.

To dry it all out, go for a long drive with the heating on full, making sure the recirc control is set to 'fresh' air -- the longer you can get warm air blowing thru the car the better chance of it drying. If you can, park it during the day in the sun with the windows open (even just cracked open), this should help too.

You say it was worse after cleaning - as well as the scuttle drains, water ends up finding its way into the doors through the strip at the bottom of the side windows. May be worth checking the drain holes at the bottom of the doors are clear.

By the way, the windscreen gets colder faster as it's facing the sky - that's why you get more condensing there (also why the screen often ices over before the rest of the car windows... true, really!)

really helpful post - yes there would have been snowy/wet boots, and i will check the drain holes on the doors thankyou

 

[MikeySkiBoy]

Have you got wet carpet in either footwell? Get in there with some paper towel and press down hard with your knuckles. Moving the paper towel about is a good idea as the water might be sitting in pools, rather than spreading out.

I have recently been experiencing exactly the same problem with my fabby diesel Dynamic and discovered that my passenger side front footwell carpet was absolutely soaking under the rubber mat. After having a look on this forum, I found that I had the blocked scuttle drains that seems to be a common issue. I cleared them out and dried the carpet out as much as I could. That was a couple of weeks ago, but I am sad to say that my passenger footwell carpet is now soaking again and, to to top that off, the driver side is also pretty wet! If you do have wet carpet, checking your drains would probably be an easy thing for you to try. Unfortunately, the driver side drain is a pain to get at, but, once you take the three screws out of and lift the plastic panel that the wipers posts stick through, a bendy foot long twig might do the trick, it certainly did for me. You might need a torch to see the drain and make it easier to aim. The passenger side one is easier, but still not easy.

On closer inspection of my car, it would seem that the water is slightly slimy, faintly smelly, and is pink if soaked up with a white paper towel. It would appear that the water is not coming down the back of the bulkhead, nor from the doors, as the carpet is bone dry toward the door and up in the bulkhead area. It just seems to be sodden in central area of the passenger foot area. I have not been able to get into the driver side, but it would appear to be a similar situation.

Due to the pink hue, I would suspect a washer or coolant leak. My coolant level was slightly below minimum, but not really by very much. I've had a look at the heater matrix, but it would appear to be dry around and underneath it.

I can't remember what colour of washer additive I have in there, so can't rule that out if it was blue. Suspiciously, my water bottle did seem to be pretty empty, but it has been a resaonable time since it was topped up and that might be the normal level. Hopefully this is not a false trail and that the water has not picked up a pink hue from something it has leaked through.

So, my questions are:

1. Apart from the scuttle drains or door rubbers, does anyone have any other ideas what the problem might be?

2. If it was coolant, would it be slimy at all, or does that point towards the washer fluid?

3. Failing that, can anyone advise how the rear washer pipe is routed from the water bottle in the front wheel arch to the tailgate? If it is up the centre, under the carpet, that might well be the source of my problem, and yours!

 

[daz1985]

hi,

my water does not seem to be as bad as yours, and is 'normal coloured' when it is mopped up with kitchen towel.

hoever i topped up my coolant to 3/4 full on 22 Dec and loked last sat 26th Jan and it was below minimum! not sure how long it had been like that - could have been from 23rd dec for all i know! i hope to god the 2 are not linked!

 

[MikeySkiBoy]

Well that might help me a bit, if your water is clear. It might mean that my water is coloured at source, which would take me back to the coolant or washer fluid.

I take it that your coolant is coloured? If it is, that's good news for you as it would rule out the heater matrix. If your washer fluid is also coloured, then likewise. Hopefully that is the case for you.

That would then take you back to rain, or a leak from underneath, the latter of which I would think is unlikely. If it is rain, then the scuttle drains would still be the easiest thing to try first, unless you can clearly see a water path.

What I would say is that my carpet does appear to be generally damp, but a good pressing down with the knuckles and paper towel will reveal areas that are much wetter . This seems strange as I would think that water would find a level and spread out and merge, rather than sit in small areas. Seems to defy common knowledge!

Good luck!

P.S. Has anyone got any idea how the washer pipe gets from the front to the rear, or if escaped coolant would feel slimy?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Coolant leaking into the car will have a 'sweet' smell, and screenwash contains alcohol (to prevent winter freezing) and most have a 'perfume' too. So, if either of these are leaking into the car, you are likely to notice the aroma of 'alcohols'. Coolant does have a 'slimey' feel, and is also very slow to evaporate away.

If you have air con, also worth looking to see that the condensate drain is working (water should drip out under the car after the air con's been on a while). My old Multipla's air con drain didn't work, and the result was water saturating the sound-deadening felt under the front carpets instead, especially on the passenger side.

 

[MikeySkiBoy]

Hi HHH and thanks for your considered thoughts on the subject.

I have no Air-Con on my Panda, but there has been a development and I think I have found the possible source of my unwelcome moisture.

I have taken off the lower past of the dash and exposed the sides of the heater matrix. I then took off the cover that goes over the creamy/grey coloured plastic pipe flow/return arrangement that goes from the passenger side (UK) of the matrix and directly through the bulkhead, into the engine compartment. On the inside of that cover, exactly at the point where the flanges of the join between the the plastic pipe assembly and the matrix would be, moisture could be seen (see attached JPG for clarification of the suspected location of the leak.). There was also a tell-tale pink wet blob on the exposed metalwork directly underneath the cover. If you then ran your finger over the lower part of the joint, it was clearly wet.

This plastic join seems to be held together by a single bolt in the middle, which is very awkward to get at. I did manage to tighten it up a bit, but them my socket wouldn't hold on to the hex head of the nut and that was as much as I could manage.

I then dried off and replaced the cover and have had a few runs in her. I popped the cover off again today and there was a drop of pink-ish water on the cover, surrounded by condensation, directly opposite the join. It's probably just a tiny amount steam that is coming out and then condensing, then collecting into a blob and then using gravity to head to the carpet. I managed to get hold of a narrower tool for the job and have tightened the bolt up a bit further, but it was really not by very much, so doubt it will have much effect. I am also concerned that over tightening may crack the plastic and make matters worse.

So, I suppose my question now changes a bit. If I still have a slight leak at the union between the flow/return pipe assembly and the heater matrix, what would be the best way to address it? Is there a gasket of some description in there, or would the factory apply some form of sealant before mating the joint, and that might have broken down?

Without any further info, I am a bit wary of trying to re-seat the joint as I might simply make it worse. Would any form of central heating sealant tape be suitable, or wise, considering there might be a bit of pressure building up there.

I have no idea how long this has been happening, but it could have been for long enough. I suspect that around 250-500 ml of coolant has been lost in 9 months, since it was last serviced, but have no idea what the level was like before that was done. Due to the amount of water in the passenger footwell, I suspect this has been going on for a very long time and my rubber mats have been holding the moisture in the carpet and felt.

In the meantime, if you are suspecting that you might have a similar issue, placing a bit of white kitchen roll directly underneath the heater assembly, above the obvious hole in the carpet, and leaving it there for a few days, would probably tell you whether that was a possibility.

Now then, I must go and have a look at why the tailgate has just started refusing to open with the handle.................... It never rains, but it pours!