General What's my van?

[Snailman]

I have a year 2000 Fiat Ducato which to my knowledge is a 2.8 TD. However ever time i need spares the options presented for a 2.8L seem to be JTD or TDi. Any help in clarifying would be greatly appreciated. If it helps i know it's a maxi but was purpose build as an ambulance in Cyprus, as such the registration is no use now it's in the UK.

 

[Communicator]

Hi Snailman.

The 2.8 JTD was introduced in 2000. It is characterised by electronically controlled injectors fed from a common rail.

I think from your comments that what you may have is an 2.8 idTD. This has a mechanical injection system with pipes running from the pump to the injectors. I am attaching a photo of a 2.8 JTD but it has the intercooler pipes removed. The four injector cables are roughly half way up the picture, and lead off to the right (vehicle left). On an idTD four injection pipes would be originating bottom right of picture, rising up, and fanning out to the injectors. (This from memory only....)

For more info see this Wikipedia article, scroll down to second generation, and slightly further to engines.

 

[Snailman]

Many thanks for your reply, any assistance is really appreciated. From your supplied image of a JTD I think we can say it's not that, as i mine doesn't appear to be the same. I'll attach a few photos of mine in hopes they are useful. If taking the top cover off would help i can do that.

Also now i come to think of it is there even a way to confirm it's a 2.8L?

 

[Communicator]

Thanks for the photo. It makes your question easier to answer.

Look at the paper label on the camshaft cover. I can almost read the engine type number. 8140.43 at the LHS of the label denotes the 2.8 idTD.

To the right of the dipstick in your photo, four injection pipes are visible. The pipes may be traced back to the injection pump at the vehicle RHS of the engine (not visible in photo).

From the VIN plate, again I can almost read the VIN. It seems to start ZFA230.... This would mean that your vehicle is an x230 model, which would fit with having the 2.8 idTD engine.

For servicing information there is a German Workshop Manual available in the downloads section. This contains wiring diagrams, but they do not show everything. I could not find the wiring diagrams in the English translation.

The negative battery cable terminal does not seem to be original. IIRC one forum member had problems due to concealed corrosion in the cable clamping area of a similar terminal. A judicious application of vaseline to the exposed cable strands would help to exclude moisture. If not already done, the main chassis earth point under the battery is also worth checking.

I am curious about the plastic bolt caps in several locations. The rhetorical question is why bother to fit them?
A weakpoint with older Ducatos is the front chassis cross member, which can suffer from corrosion. Also the sump can rust through.

 

[Snailman]

Thanks for the photo. It makes your question easier to answer.

Look at the paper label on the camshaft cover. I can almost read the engine type number. 8140.43 at the LHS of the label denotes the 2.8 idTD.

To the right of the dipstick in your photo, four injection pipes are visible. The pipes may be traced back to the injection pump at the vehicle RHS of the engine (not visible in photo).

From the VIN plate, again I can almost read the VIN. It seems to start ZFA230.... This would mean that your vehicle is an x230 model, which would fit with having the 2.8 idTD engine.

For servicing information there is a German Workshop Manual available in the downloads section. This contains wiring diagrams, but they do not show everything. I could not find the wiring diagrams in the English translation.

The negative battery cable terminal does not seem to be original. IIRC one forum member had problems due to concealed corrosion in the cable clamping area of a similar terminal. A judicious application of vaseline to the exposed cable strands would help to exclude moisture. If not already done, the main chassis earth point under the battery is also worth checking.

I am curious about the plastic bolt caps in several locations. The rhetorical question is why bother to fit them?
A weakpoint with older Ducatos is the front chassis cross member, which can suffer from corrosion. Also the sump can rust through.

 

[Snailman]

Look at the paper label on the camshaft cover. I can almost read the engine type number. 8140.43 at the LHS of the label denotes the 2.8 idTD.

Might be a daft question but is a idTD the same as a TDi? Or perhaps the version TDi denotes the use of the idTD engine? I ask because why i try to add my van to the garage on ebay, once i select Fiat, Ducato, 2.8, the only option presented is then TDi. Furthermore when i google "230CLMNC" which is on the plate as photo attached above, one of the results shows a photo of a van with the idTD badge but refers to the van as a Fiat Ducato 2.8 TDi in the title. I can't express enough how grateful i am for any input on this, as not even garages have been able to previously identify why my van is, which has lead to delays in repairs having to return parts ordered in error.

 

[ben]

If it's any help, an Eper search returns this for your VIN

 

[Communicator]

Might be a daft question but is a idTD the same as a TDi? Or perhaps the version TDi denotes the use of the idTD engine? I ask because why i try to add my van to the garage on ebay, once i select Fiat, Ducato, 2.8, the only option presented is then TDi. Furthermore when i google "230CLMNC" which is on the plate as photo attached above, one of the results shows a photo of a van with the idTD badge but refers to the van as a Fiat Ducato 2.8 TDi in the title. I can't express enough how grateful i am for any input on this, as not even garages have been able to previously identify why my van is, which has lead to delays in repairs having to return parts ordered in error.

I can't remember where but I have read somewhere that idTD ia an abreviation of intercooled direct (injection) Turbo Diesel. Perhaps this was intended as away of discriminating from the 8140.63 normally aspirated indirect injection engine, which was produced in parallel.
As regards the TDi suffix, yes that must relate to the 2.8 idTD as it was the only 2.8 litre alternative to the 8140.63 non turbo engine, prior to the introduction of the 8140.43s JTD common rail engine, which is also also an intercooled direct injection turbo diesel.
The above takes some digesting!

 

[Snailman]

Look at the paper label on the camshaft cover. I can almost read the engine type number. 8140.43 at the LHS of the label denotes the 2.8 idTD.

Might be a daft question but is a idTD the same as a TDi? Or perhaps the version TDi denotes the use of the idTD engine? I ask because why i try to add my van to the garage on ebay, once i select Fiat, Ducato, 2.8, the only option presented is then TDi. Furthermore when i google "230CLMNC" which is on the plate as photo attached above, one of the results shows a photo of a van with the idTD badge but refers to the van as a Fiat Ducato 2.8 TDi in the title. I can't express enough how grateful i am for any input on this, as not even garages have been able to previously identify why my van is, which has lead to delays in repairs having to return parts ordered in error

 

[Snailman]

I think I've solved it, or rather confirmed it. I believe i have;

Fiat Ducato 2.8 TDI Maxi 230CLMNC

Year: 2000
Generation: 2nd/MK2
Body shape: 147 Box
Wheelbase: Long (L3)
Roof: High (H3)
Length:5599 cm
Width:2000 cm
Height: 2420 cm
Axel to axel: 3700 cm

Engine: Iveco/Sofim 8140.43
Engine model: 2.8i dTD
Engine: 2799CC
Engine Cylinder: 4
Power: 90kW (122 HP)
Transmission: 5 Speed Manual
Drivetrain: Front wheel

This webpage was also very useful; https://www.transitcenter.uk/fiat-ducato-2-data-specification.php

 

[Snailman]

Not so solved after all, I've since had two people tell me TDi and idTD are two different things, the TDi came after the idTD. Any knowledge appreciated.

 

[Communicator]

Not so solved after all, I've since had two people tell me TDi and idTD are two different things, the TDi came after the idTD. Any knowledge appreciated.

Hi,
You may find this website informative. Scroll down to 8140.43 for relevant information. I am attaching a library copy of a Fiat Forum post that I had saved in December 2019. Unfortunately I failed to save the name of the OP, to whom credit is due.

 

[Snailman]

Hi,
You may find this website informative. Scroll down to 8140.43 for relevant information. I am attaching a library copy of a Fiat Forum post that I had saved in December 2019. Unfortunately I failed to save the name of the OP, to whom credit is due.

Many thanks for that, however, upon the linked page it states that the 8140.43 was used on "Fiat Ducato II 2.8 id TD (1996-1999), however mines a 2000 and definitely has that engine, so none the wiser there.

The attached PDF also states 96-99 but seems to imply there was a 2.8 TDI and idTD.

Further more despite being informed the TDI came after the idTD on the Italian wiki it states the TDI came first and only the 2.5 was a TDI.

I'm so bamboozled by it all to be honest. However if you search google images, every photo of the front wing that shows TDI is a 2.5 and every 2.8 shows idTD. Not sure that's any conclusive proof of anything mind.

 

[ben]

If you use eper and search with your VIN, it should tell you the correct part (which you can compare on the online shop to see which version they list it as)

 

[Snailman]

If you use eper and search with your VIN, it should tell you the correct part (which you can compare on the online shop to see which version they list it as)

Unfortunately i get error 666. I've be trying for a few days both on my phone and on a laptop.

 

[Communicator]

Many thanks for that, however, upon the linked page it states that the 8140.43 was used on "Fiat Ducato II 2.8 id TD (1996-1999), however mines a 2000 and definitely has that engine, so none the wiser there.

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Are you confusing manufacturing year with that of registration? They can differ, especially when a conversion is involved.

 

[Snailman]

It says 2000 on the V5;
Registration date: 13/04/2000
UK registered: 01/07/2013

Thing's i think i know;

Fiat Ducato 2.8 idTD (230CLMNC)

Engine: Iveco/Sofim 8140.43
Engine Number: 2941995
Model: 2.8i dTD
Size: 2799CC
Cylinder: 4
Power: 90 kW (122 HP)
MVS: 232.650.1
Intercooled: yes
Turbo: yes
Transmission: 5 speed manual
Drivetrain: FWD

 

[Anthony489]

Hi Snailman

If you look at the "hidden" side of plastic trim pieces, there is often a date code from when it was moulded. These items usually travelled from maker to assembly plant within only a month or two, so it may give a clue to the date of manufacture.

 

[Communicator]

In addition to Anthony's suggestion of looking for the dates on pieces of plastic trim, I was thinking that on some components including wiring harnesses, there are often paper or plastic labels, which show similar dates of manufacture.

 

[Snailman]

I'll certainly take a look but the year wasn't something i was doubting, afterall the V5 says 2000 and the registration is W which is correct for 2000. The model was the thing in question, and whether it be a maxi or not.