General What engine should i get. TA or 1.2

[corsasri]

Hello i need a bit of advise. placed a order for a 2013 fiat 500s with a dualogic box. i have picked a 1.2 version but unsure if i should bite the bulit and pay the extra for the twinair version.
I know the mpg figures that fiat list are not even worth looking at and beeter to ask people who drive the cars.
Is the twinair going to get any better mpg than the 1.2
If both engines match the mpg or if the twinair is not going to be less. Am i better buying the twinair for when i just want to floor it everywhere.

your advise will be great.

 

[306maxi]

It's up to you, I'm not going to be driving the car

 

[ItalianWines]

It's up to you, I'm not going to be driving the car

Unlike Maxi, corsasri I'll give you an answer to your question :-D
TA all the way.... Drive it in ECO mode.... It's like a 1.2 .... Then out of ECO mode amd ýöü have your fun to drive TA back again. ...
Best of both worlds

 

[jrkitching]

Is the twinair going to get any better mpg than the 1.2

No. Not a chance. Not even in eco mode. No matter how carefully you drive it.

Am i better buying the twinair for when i just want to floor it everywhere.

Yes absolutely. If you want performance, the TA will leave the 1.2 standing, and most folks here think the fun factor is even greater than the absolute performance. You'll pay the price in economy, though - driven properly hard, some have reported figures below 30mpg.

My advice is that it depends on whether your priority is performance or economy. The 1.2 will cost you less to buy and less at the pump, but it won't put the same smile on your face.

Fuel is a relatively small part of the total ownership cost, and the difference in fuel cost between the 1.2 & the TA is smaller still. So if you want a fun car with no regrets, the TA may be the better choice. If you are that obsessed with keeping cost to an absolute minimum, you'd be far better off buying a Panda.

FWIW, the majority of folks facing the same choice opt for the TA, and not many have come back to talk about regretting the extra cost over the 1.2 . But noone has even come anywhere close to getting the fuel figures I get from my 1.2 .

 

[306maxi]

How much extra is the Twinair though? :chin:

The OP should testdrive both and decide for himself, I've never been out driving and felt like my car was missing £1200 of performance

 

[corsasri]

So if i drive the 1.2 hard what sort of mpg compaired to the TA driven in eco mode.

 

[UFI]

No. Not a chance. Not even in eco mode. No matter how carefully you drive it.

You'll pay the price in economy, though - driven properly hard, some have reported figures below 30mpg.

There are quite a few 55MPG TA drivers on here. My track day returned around 8MPG :devil:, but still 47 for the tank.

ECO acutally bumps it's 100Nm peak to a higher point in the rev range than where 100Nm occurs in normal mode, so I'm still left wondering if it actually works.

 

[306maxi]

It really does depend on what sort of a driver you are. When new, some people struggle to get over 40mpg in their TA's whereas you can easily get about 47 or so from a 1.2 when new. I can easily get mid 50's in my 1.2 and have had over 60. Jrkitching AVERAGES 60 in his 1.2, most people struggle to average high 40's in the twinair.

There might be the odd person like UFI that gets decent economy from a ta, but he's the exception and not the rule.

TBH I don't see the point in flooring any 500 tbh, aside from the Abarth and perhaps the dismal, you're not going anywhere particularly fast. I'm happy just to have a 1.2, keep it to 55 or so and get better fuel economy With that additional £1200 you could buy a cheap fast car and actually go somewhere when you put your foot down

9 times out of 10 the 1.2 will cream the twinair on fuel economy.

 

[jrkitching]

So if i drive the 1.2 hard what sort of mpg compaired to the TA driven in eco mode.

The TA driven carefully will give better mpg figures than the 1.2 driven hard, but I think it's a pointless question. If you're going to drive the car hard, it shows that economy is not your priority anyway & you'd be better off choosing a car which will give you the performance you want.

 

[UFI]

So if i drive the 1.2 hard what sort of mpg compaired to the TA driven in eco mode.

The TA is still going to be faster because it makes bulk torque at low RPM, the 1.2 will have more of a torque gap between gears. It's never going to be much different in MPG terms as moving X kg to Y speed requires Z joules, and the differences in engine efficiency are only a few percent.

On the road, the TA requires fewer revs so might be more suited to lively driving than a 1.2, and this might also help the engine last longer. On the other hand, some people would rather get their acceleration by using more revs, rather than turbo boost/ torque.

 

[306maxi]

The TA driven carefully will give better mpg figures than the 1.2 driven hard, but I think it's a pointless question. If you're going to drive the car hard, it shows that economy is not your priority anyway & you'd be better off choosing a car which will give you the performance you want.

Tbh though, if you're wanting performance then you really need to buy an Abarth, the twinair is obviously less slow than a 1.2, but neither are getting even close to being lukewarm.

 

[306maxi]

The TA is still going to be faster because it makes bulk torque at low RPM, the 1.2 will have more of a torque gap between gears. It's never going to be much different in MPG terms as moving X kg to Y speed requires Z joules, and the differences in engine efficiency are only a few percent.

On the road, the TA requires fewer revs so might be more suited to lively driving than a 1.2, and this might also help the engine last longer. On the other hand, some people would rather get their acceleration by using more revs, rather than turbo boost/ torque.

The 1.2 doesn't need much in terms of revs. I can accelerate from 25 in 5th if I want to

 

[UFI]

Understood, but for the two cars to accelerate at the same rate, the 1.2 will need to be revved harder.

 

[306maxi]

Understood, but for the two cars to accelerate at the same rate, the 1.2 will need to be revved harder.

Why though? I drive my 1.2 like a 1.2. Sometimes I'll even skip 4th and go straight to 5th gear. The 1.2 has more than enough poke to keep up with traffic without having to be ragged, I've got a 1.2 Panda 4x4, I know what slow is! It's even slower than my 504 was and that wasn't quick!

 

[scout]

I surprised myself yesterday, I drove from Brighton to Milton Keynes at normal motorway speeds and was getting 50+ mpg ' now that's a first for me. Before when I've gone over 60/65 in the TA the mpg has taken a hit.

As maxi says neither of the engines are going to set the world alight but in everyday situations the 1.2 will be more economical and the TA will be more 'fun' (as opposed to sporty ) it all depends on what you want from your car. If you want out and out performance buy something else

 

[UFI]

It's not all about you though Maxi , the OP's question is about comparing the two engines, which means a bit of armchair racing.

As for slow, I drive a 20 year old van that weighs nearly 2 tons loaded and came factory with 60kW. I went through a long line of very slow cars before my first performance car, and really a TA is all the performance I need in a street car, although my even Wrangler is actually faster.

 

[306maxi]

It's not all about you though Maxi , the OP's question is about comparing the two engines, which means a bit of armchair racing.

As for slow, I drive a 20 year old van that weighs nearly 2 tons loaded and came factory with 60kW. I went through a long line of very slow cars before my first performance car, and really a TA is all the performance I need in a street car, although my even Wrangler is actually faster.

It's not? Even though it's my birthday today?

 

[Aussie500nut]

Hi
Agreewith all that's already been said but here's my 2 cents worth

First up, we had seen the adds for the $14K Pop, so went to the dealer with the intention of test driving the 1.2 and then the TA for comparison given the extra $$s involved, with manual gearbox

As luck would have it, (or otherwise), as we walked over to the TA the salesman started it up to take someone else for a test run .
Well that was it for me - sounded just like the Bambinos we had years ago
So we didn't bother with the 1.2, so I can't speak from experience driving that engine

We did the evaluating and test drives over about 4 days and the initial decision wasTA with manual gearbox.
Again, just forcomparison we arranged and had to wait a day for an "auto" to be available to try, but we ended up buying a (new) TwinAair Plus with Dualogic gearbox. We have had now for about 3 weeks. It is great FUN to drive and the paddles add a new dimension to the funfactor.
Wife pretty well just drives it in "auto" but lifts the accelerator a little to initiate a gearchange -
I leave it in "auto" and use the paddles when I want it to change, which is maybe 50% of the time

From our experience, I would suggest if the main objective is economy, both in purchase and running, go for the 1.2 manual.

If the budget can handle it and it is fun, enjoyable driving that can give very good economy if you try hard or good performance if/when you want it is more the aim, then go for the TA - as said by others - the best of both worlds.
Would also suggest a good look at the Dualogic if fun is a good part of the equation.

If it is performance you want get the Abarth if it has to be a 500, or some other performance vehicle.

The TA is more about the character of the car and fun driving it and the sound of the 2 cylinder engine is most of that
Hope that helps

 

[The Twins]

We have both TA and 1.2.
The 1.2 is a very flexible engine and will tootle along at 1500rpm in 5th no prob and is very refined and smooth.
It is pretty flat though compared to the TA which is slightly fussy in terms of power delivery. It doesn't really like very low revs and sounds quite rough until you are above 2500rpm.
Part if the charm of the TA is that it sounds like an original 2cyl classic 500 so I can forgive the slight gruff nature of the engine.
For economy... The 1.2 is less sensitive to driving style. It will return 45 - 50mpg quite easily. The TA however is much more sensitive to driving style vs mpg but it does feel a lot more punchy than the 1.2.
If I drive very carefully I can get 50mpg out of the TA even around town but if I put my foot down a bit it can reduce to the high 30's in a similar journey.
Weighing the extra purchase cost overall economy, the pure eco winner is the 1.2 but for fun factor and character the TA wins for me.
If we had our time again we would have bought 2x TA I think.
You should really drive both and see which you prefer.
Hope our experiences help you to know the characteristics to look for when you take a test drive.

 

[jrkitching]

It's not? Even though it's my birthday today?

Happy Birthday .