Worth mentioning to the 'experts' who charged plenty for the cambelt change..
Been very busy with other stuff for the last few days so haven't been thinking about the Punto. However something has happened which made me remember - The timing tool kit has arrived! Yipee! So now everything is in place to get on with my boy's car. The only fly in the ointment is that we had planned to do it during his recent leave days, that's gone now due to the delay (the order went in, via eBay, on Oct 19th. Due to abortive shipping attempts, I took delivery on the morning of 7th Nov). He works unsociable hours with very little notice of when his shift times will be so it may be a wee while before I get my hands on it which, as it's a 2012 car with about 4500 miles on it, is making me slightly twitchy!
Anyway, I've just been catching up on the thread and Charlie's post about the cost of a cambelt change set me to thinking that some of you might be interrested in the research I did whilst trying to decide whether to let a "professional" do it or do it myself. Bearing in mind I worked as a mechanic in the late '60's, '70's and '80's I was not too concerned with physically doing the job. But how did the expenses stack up? Tools and potentialy expensive parts needed to be bought and I only had my VCDS (VAG-com, as it used to be) generic scanner which I've never tried on a Fiat and anyway it wouldn't do a service reset on it let alone anything more technical. Besides, I really really would like my own
Multiecuscan! So I started ringing and visiting workshops and exploring the internet possibilities. Herewith a sumation of the results:-
First off I rang a couple of large (Posh showroom type) Fiat dealer service departments:-
To renew timing belt and water pump inclusive of fluids etc. £426
Major service (special price) £169
Total cost £595
Both dealers, not surprisingly, quoted virtually identical prices. I'm not sure what the special price on the service is all about. I was offered it without asking or any particular explanation of why I qualified for it so it was probably that months "special". Stupidly didn't ask what the standard price would be! Both wanted to know why I wanted to renew the water pump. They suggested that it is often not necessary, that it would normaly be checked during the procedure and only changed if necessary! I was told it would save a worthwhile amount if it didn't need changing. Now I don't know about you, but I don't know how you can "check" an installed pump and predict that it is going to outlast the new belt which you are about to fit? On installations where the pump is part of the timing belt drive train (as it is on this Punto) I would always renew the pump. (seen too many with collapsed or seized bearings and the very annoyingly expensive results) in fact I would always renew the pump even where it wasn't an integral part of the drivetrain but was so buried on the engine that to change it would require the timing belt to be removed for access.
So, sweating at the prospect of that expense, I approached quite a few smaller independant workshops. Generally speaking they were all very friendly and prepared to talk and answer questions. (I think they were a bit surprised at this "Old Boy" who actually seemed to know what they were talking about!) As we know this family of engines turn up in quite a few makes of car and these smaller garages were all familiar with it. I chatted with most of them about how they would do the job. Nearly all said they would automatically buy a belt kit which included the water pump unless the customer specifically said they only wanted the belt fitted on it's own. Not one of them could produce a locking tool kit, although two said they could rent one from a trade source if needed (My local factor rents them out to trade sources only). Several said, however, that they've done them in the past by tipp-exing the pulleys and never had a problem. None said the cam cover needed to be removed, knew what a Phonic Wheel Relearn was, why you would want to do it, and only had generic scanners (Bosch, Snap on, etc). All considered it an "easy job" and were happy to take it on. Several were familiar enough with parts prices to quote on the spot with the others saying they would like to check the cost of the belt kit but knew they could "knock spots" off the Main Dealer price. These quotes were verbal and varied a bit so I've averaged them out for comparison:-
To renew timing belt and water pump etc. £235
Major service (There was about a £30 variation here) £185
Total cost £420
Then I looked at
Multiecuscan and decided that, if I could justify it, the Multiplexed version with its bluetooth capability, single interface, multi device instalation, etc, was the one I'd like. Whilst making my mind up I pestered Mike West at Gendan on many occassions with what he probably found to be "stupid" questions. He was very patient and answered all my concerns very fully. I can strongly recommend this company. The other piece of equipment I didn't have was a kit of locking tools. There is a large selection, widely varying in price on eBay. The cheapest come from China directly, and would have saved me around £10, but I decided to buy from a British supplier as I felt that it would be easier to communicate if something went wrong (Boy was I glad!) I bought a Neilsen branded CT3395 kit and it looks robust and well finished. So here are the prices I actually bought things for:-
Multiecuscan Multiplexed version. (Don't tell the wife!) £234.95
Neilsen Timing Tool kit £ 45.00
Fuchs Titan 5w-40 engine oil (5 litres) £ 22.95
Gates Timing Belt kit (with water pump) £ 61.92
Air Filter £ 6.40
Oil Filter £ 2.60
Cabin Filter £ 4.28
Cam Cover Gasket £ 10.40
Spark Plugs (4 off standard type) £ 16.00 approx.
Antifreeze mix £ 10.00 approx.
Total cost £414.50
So. Wow, I can do it myself for the sort of money an independant is going to charge and end up with a set of locking tools and a multiplexed version of
MES to "play" with when I've finished! So it was no contest. I ordered everything up. The only thing that fell apart was the delivery on the timing tools which took two abortive attempts and a change to another delivery service before it got to me. I live in Edinburgh and have never had a problem before so what went wrong this time? well who knows.
As a wee follow up to the main dealer recommendation it may interrest you to know that during my investigations I turned up a very nice, but overpriced, 2010 Dynamic Eco Panda - a model I'm looking for for my wife - I contacted the dealer, who was another branch of the dealer network that gave me the "Dealer price quotes" you see above to get details of service history etc and to ask if there was any proof of the cam belt having been done. Didn't know but would ring me back. 20 minutes later a phone call to tell me "Yes it has been done by us as part of the sales preparation" and was the water pump done as well? Another wait and the information that was "NO, it didn't need one"??!! Oh deary me! I despair!
Anyway folks, hope you found the above interresting. I feel I could have probably got some of these prices down by playing one against the other, especially some of the smaller workshops, but I think the above comparissons are valid and realistic. It would be interresting to know how these prices compare with other parts of the country if anyone has recently done any costing.
That's all for now folks I'll keep updating as the Punto timing belt and service work progresses. Especially the comparison I want to do between the accuracy of using the locking tools and doing it with Tipp-ex marks on the pulleys/belt/engine casings.
Please do let me know if all this is just too boring and I'll stop. In the meantime, good night, I'm off to bed!