Hi folks, I will soon have a complete engine from a '72 Giardiniera available, as I am converting the car to an EV. The engine condition is good - nobody will confuse this with concours quality - but it runs and drives perfectly fine, and starts reliably. I acquired the car earlier this year with basically zero paperwork, so detailed history is unknown. The odometer is about 8000 km but that's probably rolled over once. If anyone is seeking a replacement engine, or some key parts, feel free to reach out.
Technical USA giardiniera engine
- Thread starter ride106
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Technical USA giardiniera engine
No kit exists, unfortunately, especially for the giardiniera. I do know that Electric Classic Cars in the UK offers one for the standard 500 but they don't sell directly to individuals. I remember Icon 4x4 converted a giardy in CA a few years ago, and I found someone on instagram converting one DIY based in Canada. Most of the parts you need can be purchased without too much hassle, but figuring out what items are compatible took me a while. Then there's the challenge of designing the couplers from motor-flywheel and motor-bellhousing and getting them fabricated. I'll post more information when I get deeper into the build, right now I am still collecting parts and bench testing.
Do you have a link for the Canadian 500 conversion? Curious who it might be
An individual by the username evmanic, www.evmanic.com
Ohh ok, not who i was thinking of. Neat regardless. Unfortunately on the other side of the country to me.
On a side note. Again i can be of assistance if your planning to do diy. However, there is a massive range of options that tie into a massive budget range.
Theres basic (DC drive motor), intermediate (entry level AC drive), then ultimate (modern ev drivetrain units). which would absoulety fling the fiat around like a racecar lol.
On a side note. Again i can be of assistance if your planning to do diy. However, there is a massive range of options that tie into a massive budget range.
Theres basic (DC drive motor), intermediate (entry level AC drive), then ultimate (modern ev drivetrain units). which would absoulety fling the fiat around like a racecar lol.
Thanks and would love to pick your brain sometime! Not to completely hijack this thread topic but I am going with probably an "intermediate" system as you describe... trying to keep with the original character of the car (and not turn the gearbox into dust). I also am keeping the clutch as an added bit of safety and convenience. I'm going with a ME1616 motor, about 20kW average, battery pack will be about 10 kWh. Same basic setup that is used in the Citroen "2CeV" conversion in the UK. I'm using LiFePO4 batteries because I don't trust myself with old tesla modules should they have a thermal runaway event due to my own poor wiring, etc. Actually that is why I went with the giardiniera, for the improved trunk space. If my calcs are right I should be able to do everything in 3rd or 4th gear except for big hills. Overall goal is to make this a useable and fun car, but avoid the rats nest of wiring that you tend to see on quicker DIY projects and try for a professional fit and finish.
Looks like a decent choice for a motor. Cant believe how much the price on those things have dropped in the past few years.
If you plan to go with a curtis controller. I have the software. (it used to be unattainable back in the day). Ill have to do more research on those motors, might want one for a future project. I have a Curtis 1239 on the shelf waiting for something..
For those wanting some crazy power. Its fresh on the market, im sure folks are already beginning to reverse engineer the kit to use standalone. But you can literally order a front drive ford mach-e drive motor upgrade. Unit has 210kw, and is a full differential unit also. Cant wait to see how this evolves, because this tied with a suitable HV controller, would make for a awesome drop in motor package for larger cars/vintage, etc.
There are a few teardown videos on the net already showing the guts.
If you plan to go with a curtis controller. I have the software. (it used to be unattainable back in the day). Ill have to do more research on those motors, might want one for a future project. I have a Curtis 1239 on the shelf waiting for something..
For those wanting some crazy power. Its fresh on the market, im sure folks are already beginning to reverse engineer the kit to use standalone. But you can literally order a front drive ford mach-e drive motor upgrade. Unit has 210kw, and is a full differential unit also. Cant wait to see how this evolves, because this tied with a suitable HV controller, would make for a awesome drop in motor package for larger cars/vintage, etc.
There are a few teardown videos on the net already showing the guts.
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Yeah it's a cool time with pretty wide parts availability these days. Mostly I've only seen leaf motors and the occasional brave soul who drops in a tesla rear drive unit and hacks it with OpenInverter. I am using a Curtis 1238 I got from ThunderstruckEV with the motor as a package - there should be some basic software loaded on. Supposedly they've programmed the motor to the controller, but I haven't bench tested yet to double check that. I did buy a handheld programmer to adjust settings but didn't explore the idea of full software loading. I'll send you a PM.
Bumping this up for any interested parties - my old engine is out, in a crate, and ready to be shipped. Not the most beautiful specimen, to be sure, but functional. Some pictures and running videos: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0xGWBC59GefKiS
$1000 obo. Would include everything ICE related - fuel tank, starter motor, ignition coil, and voltage regulator. I can ship using LTL freight (generally pretty reasonable if you are able to pick it up at a local terminal). Crate measures about 30"L x 24"W x 20" tall.
Edit: would also entertain reasonable requests for specific parts.
$1000 obo. Would include everything ICE related - fuel tank, starter motor, ignition coil, and voltage regulator. I can ship using LTL freight (generally pretty reasonable if you are able to pick it up at a local terminal). Crate measures about 30"L x 24"W x 20" tall.
Edit: would also entertain reasonable requests for specific parts.
Bumping this to see there is any renewed interest? I would just like to avoid scrapping it but also get it out of the house, so if anyone would like it, it’s yours if you cover the shipping. In a crate and ready to go. If you are able to pick up at a freight terminal, it should be $250-500 depending where you live with LTL rates.
Will probably keep this around until the end of the year and then scrap it if I get no takers. Opportunity knocks!
Will probably keep this around until the end of the year and then scrap it if I get no takers. Opportunity knocks!
Hi,
I am new to this forum, and just found your post.
I am looking at converting a Topolino A to electric, also possibly a Giardiniera, just wondering how did your project go and if there is any details you can share.
Cheers
Hi Alio, the EV conversion went great. Finished it up spring 2023 and it's proven to be really reliable, honestly. I was a little worried I would lose too much character in the swap but there is still plenty to go around. Audible feedback through transmission whine and the motor is not silent like a modern EV anyway so it's a ton of fun. I run a 100 volt 10kWh LiFePO4 battery pack, which is good for about 50 miles. Some other folks have gone about it using old tesla packs, which are pretty reliable and dare I say "safe", but I didn't like the idea of a DIY project somehow going wrong and ending up with a thermal runaway event and burning my house down. So I specifically sought the giardiniera for it's additional trunk space, because the iron phosphate batteries are less energy dense and take up a bit more room. I know Icon4x4 converted one about 10 years back and had some photos available online, and I know another member in Canada completed a conversion around the same time I did, both used tesla packs with good success I believe.
I use a water cooled ME1616 motor, a Curtis 1238 controller, Orion BMS, and a few other off the shelf components to get it running. I had a metal fabricator friend of mine make a combo battery & contactor box that sits behind the rear seat. I found another local machinist shop make a coupler to attach the flywheel to the motor (I kept the transaxle). The last big custom part you'll need is an adapter plate to connect the motor to the bell housing - I used an online CNC outfit to mill a plate out of aluminum. I could not find any places that advertised an adapter plate for the giardy's bell housing (or this motor) so I had to design my own. Other miscellaneous items... you have to figure out a way to mount the back of the motor to the frame, because the original spring-loaded rear bumper mount doesn't have enough rigidity to handle the torque of the electric motor. Also need to fabricate something for a throttle cable to a potentiometer... charger mounting, other wiring, 12v integration, etc. It was a big project but all in all pretty doable. Everything is super accessible in the giardiniera. Send me a message if you decide to tackle it and I can share other details. I'm about 3 hours south of Montreal if you're ever headed south, I can give you a ride.
I use a water cooled ME1616 motor, a Curtis 1238 controller, Orion BMS, and a few other off the shelf components to get it running. I had a metal fabricator friend of mine make a combo battery & contactor box that sits behind the rear seat. I found another local machinist shop make a coupler to attach the flywheel to the motor (I kept the transaxle). The last big custom part you'll need is an adapter plate to connect the motor to the bell housing - I used an online CNC outfit to mill a plate out of aluminum. I could not find any places that advertised an adapter plate for the giardy's bell housing (or this motor) so I had to design my own. Other miscellaneous items... you have to figure out a way to mount the back of the motor to the frame, because the original spring-loaded rear bumper mount doesn't have enough rigidity to handle the torque of the electric motor. Also need to fabricate something for a throttle cable to a potentiometer... charger mounting, other wiring, 12v integration, etc. It was a big project but all in all pretty doable. Everything is super accessible in the giardiniera. Send me a message if you decide to tackle it and I can share other details. I'm about 3 hours south of Montreal if you're ever headed south, I can give you a ride.
the hobbler
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I think that converting a 500A Topolino to EV is not a wise decision---don't forget, the transmission (rear-axle etc) and brakes were all designed for a mere 13hp (and later 15hp) for which they were perfectly adequate.They were not designed for the power, torque and speed that an EV conversion will subject it to. You will have to up-grade so much that It will no longer be a "Topolino"----just a Topolino bodied modern EV. For the Giardiniera,why notup-grade the ngine to 652cc--you will get a rapid little runabout---Radbourne Racing put a 5652cc conversion on their Giardy van and it was a hoot around town.
Thanks The hobbler, food for thought. I am looking at the option you suggest for the Giardiniera, do you have any suggestions on how best to modify the engine to a 652cc?
The Topolino engine that I have is in a very bad state, missing many parts. Rebuilding does not seem a possible option unless I source another engine. Perhaps a low power electric from a motor bike set up? Much to learn...
The Topolino engine that I have is in a very bad state, missing many parts. Rebuilding does not seem a possible option unless I source another engine. Perhaps a low power electric from a motor bike set up? Much to learn...
the hobbler
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First of all, apologies----that is a 652cc engine in the Giardi, NOT a 5652cc engine (but I expect SOMEBODY would try and fit an engine of that size). At Radbourne Racing, a "Nardi" 652cc kit was comprised of a pair of 77mm barrels/piston units and a slightly wilder cam. In those days (the late 1960s) there were no other options, unlike today where there are a number of sources for these modifications. Basically, the engine is stripped, the barrel apertures in the crankcase are opened up (any competent machine shop should be able to do that job), the new barrels and pistons fitted and the engine then re-built.The increase in cubic capacity will instantly increase the Compression-ratio and the 'wilder' cam will enable you to use that extra capacity. I have put my thoughts on tuning the 500 engine down on paper, if you would like to contact me direct ([email protected]) I will give you a copy of those thoughts. I can also give you details of Companies who can supply the parts that you will require.
The Giardy van that we had at Radbourne Racing was known to exceed 70mph on a number of occasions---even with 2 people in the van and a load of parts in the back!
the hobbler
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Sorry "Alio", forgot to mention the Topolino. I understand your predicament; Topolino engines (both 'A' and 'B'---a better replacement) are available, but they are all on this side of "the big pond" . I can give you a number of 'e-bay numbers' for engines. I say that the 'B'wouldbe a betterreplacement option because it is the Over-head valve version of the Topolino engine, and Fiat did make a 'B' for about a year--it has just a little more poke, but matches up with everything in the engine bay. If you HAVE to "go EV" than keep the electic power low as sensibly possible. Also, where would you pack the batteries?---there is not a lot of strength in the chassis, particularly at the back.
Good day Ride106, I am trying to rebuild a giardi engine, and a fellow forum member suggested to contact you to see if you still have your old engine and if someone else did not have a greater or more urgent need for it, and if it would be possible to arrange for me to ship it to northern Vermont.
Or as you are not too far away to pick it up. This will be a second engine to help restoring the one I have.
I am away at this time back early December if you have room to keep if until then if not i am sure we can arrange shipping.
best regards
