Technical UNO Clutch problems

[jrainey1981]

I have a '92 999cc Fire and the clutch was making scratching noises and was difficult to put in gear I looked at the cable and it was as tight as it could go. Two days ago I couldn't even start the car without it being in neutral so now I am in the process of fixing it myself. I can only assume I need a new clutch. I bought the Haynes manual on the internet and they conviently left out the chapter I needed. I have all the linkages removed from the gearbox and now I am stuck and I can't get get the drive shaft out. Any help on clutch removal would be most helpful. Thank you.

ps Do I have to remove the gearbox first or can it all come out as 1 piece?

 

[turbo_jim]

It is possible for the clutch cable to stretch without breaking completely, although this probably wouldnt explain the strange noises i suppose. Elsewhere on this forum there is someone who can email you the relevant parts of the haynes manual. Cant remember who it was but he's here somewhere

 

[jrainey1981]

That migt explain it but I really don't know. The noises were going on for about 2 weeks before it finally decided not to want to work anymore. It started, but if I had it in first when I started it would begin moving before the car started even with the clutch depressed. I did notice that if I lifted the clutch pedal towards the roof the noises would stop. Also a friend of mine tightened the cable by turning the rubber stopper sideways so it was a little bit tighter and when I pushed on the clutch it started smoking so i figured it didn't need to be tighter. So confusing........

 

[alexGS]

Hi jrainey! welcome to the forum...
Sounds like a collapsed release bearing to me, I think you're doing the right thing by removing the gearbox and fixing properly.

I wrote about this a while ago (and I see it has been made into a 'How To'): https://www.fiatforum.com/uno-guides/43629-clutch-change-uno-ie-start.html?highlight=gearbox+removal

I feel that it is easier to remove the driveshafts from the transmission, as it makes it easier to lift the gearbox back onto the engine without the driveshafts in the way. You need the help of a friend to slacken the driveshaft outer nuts, since they need to stand on the brakes while you use a socket handle (and long piece of tubing for extra leverage).

Let us know how it goes!

-Alex

 

[(CZ)enda]

If you cannot release the big nut on the hub (I never succeeded, even with a 1,5 m scaffolding pipe on the handle - hope it goes without saying that I had the securing lip banged off), you can also remove the whole hub/driveshaft assembly after knocking out the track rod end and the lower balljoint and releasing the two bolts/nuts that attach the hub to the shock absorber.

 

[SuperUno]

I have removed hub nuts with a torque wrench before, but you have to do slacken the nut with the car on the ground first before lifting it up. Then lift it up and take things apart, or get a rattle gun, one the best tools i ever bought. A mains powered one is about 50-60 quid, and will undo any nut/bolt. Ideal for doing the inner bolts for the TCA's when they rust in place. 10 secs with the rattle gun and any nut / bolt is undone

Almost as much fun to use as an angle grinder

 

[jrainey1981]

Well I finally got some buddies of mine and we got the thing out I have some pics of what everything looked like.....

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[alexGS]

Pretty clear what was wrong, isn't it

The fork doesn't usually wear out, so you should find a replacement from a wreckers easily enough?

Satisfying when you have found the fault - now you just need enough bits to fix it and it will be as good as new!

BTW if you click 'Go Advanced', you can 'manage attachments' and upload photos there - probably easier than hosting the pictures elsewhere and linking?

-Alex

 

[jrainey1981]

Thanks for the pic advice it took me like 45 minutes to put those. Its pretty obvious that I need a new clutch assy. and release bearing but do I really need a new fork? I only need the car for about 2 more yrs before I transfer from Italy. Plus the nearest junk yard is about 1 hr drive from here. Do you know where I can get a clutch kit for a reasonable price? The people here in LaMaddalena want 180 Euro for the kit. I called someone in the UK from ebay but with the shipping to Italy the price was the same. Thanks
Chris

 

[(CZ)enda]

Try major aftermarket European brands, they surely are available in Italy. A few brands that pop to my mind right now are LUK, Valeo, Sachs, Borg and Beck, QH... whatever. I recently bought a complete LUK set for 60 Euro from local Internet spare parts shop.
You can always try European fleabay branches, of which German seems to be the most developped.
German expression for "clutch" is "kupplung":
http://cgi.ebay.de/Kupplung-Fiat-Un...071478571QQcategoryZ61263QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
...and it seems that in Italian it is called "kit frizione":
http://cgi.ebay.de/TRASP-GRATIS-KIT...072750554QQcategoryZ33588QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
These are, of course, only examples, I do not know what type of clutch you need.

 

[alexGS]

Ironic, that - considering that I always think of Italy as the home of FIAT parts! Maybe you haven't found the right shop yet. I remember from my tourist visit that Rome seemed devoid of any automotive trades (Venice and Florence as well, for that matter). I don't know where LaMaddalena is, obviously Maybe there are places in Turin that you can find in a yellow-pages type of online directory?

Fork is probably OK but hard to see from the small pic (which I can't seem to make larger) - basically as long as both sides are there and square, it should be OK. Check for cracks.

Incidentally, the 'Kupplung' that (CZ)enda linked to will not fit, since it's for a 1116cc engine. You'll need one for the FIRE, like the second one that (CZ)enda linked to (in Italy). Of course, (CZ)enda included a disclaimer at the bottom of his post

Re: "transfer from Italy" - are you originally from England, then? (off-topic, I know!)

-Alex

 

[jrainey1981]

I am actually originally from the US but I am in the Navy and stationed in Italy. La Maddalena is a small island off of the bigger island of Sardinia. Which is 30min flight from Rome. I think the high prices might be due to the island shipping.

 

[jrainey1981]

Ok I finally purchased a new clutch today. Unfortunatly I still have a couple problems to figure out.....

1. I bought an ACDelco clutch and it looks different than the old one. It all fits but I was wondering if different companies make different looking clutches for the same cars? I included some pics for you to look at.

2. I can't figure out how the release bearing goes in. The old one was torn to pieces so I don't know how it sat in there.

 

[Chas Uno]

That clutch does look a bit strange, but it is quite normal for aftermarket manufacturers to use a different looking design.

What you need to check is that the new friction plate fits the splines on the gearbox shaft (should be a snug sliding fit) and that the overall diameter of the friction plate is the same as the old one.

Also, while you're at it, it's a good idea to change the gearbox output shaft oil seal. I think it has two bolts that hold it in. I should have done this when I changed my clutch and gearbox but completely forgot. Now I have a small oil leak... :bang:

The release bearing has two tangs on it, one should have a small lip compared with the other. You fit the release bearing onto the release fork first, and the tang with the lip should go at the top. The lip helps hold it into place when refitting the gearbox.

Once the release bearing is in place, then you fit the gearbox onto the engine. Do up a couple of bolts first and then check that the arm is connecting with the clutch pressure plate. Better to do this now rather than do up all the bolts only to find something is not in place, and then having to remove everything again

Best of luck, and let the forum know how you get on.

Chas

 

[jrainey1981]

So its plastic side towards the gear box? All the splines match and the friction disc is the same size. Thank you for your help

 

[Chas Uno]

One side of the release bearing (with the two tangs) should hook onto the release arm fork. It should be fairly obvious when you go to fit it. Basically the hooks face towards the gearbox and away from the engine. If you fit it the other way round then the release bearing won't hook onto the release fork and the two locating tangs will just rotate.

Hope this helps!

Chas

 

[alexGS]

Chas mentioned the gearbox output shaft seal - I think he meant 'input' shaft seal (maybe I'm splitting hairs ) The seal itself is rather convincingly part of the collar that the clutch release bearing slides on. A trap for young players: during the vice-work trying to pry the seal out, it is easy to distort the collar and have clutch problems later on. Better to try and obtain the collar with seal already fitted - or in my opinion, just chance it (if, say, less than 200,000km).

That clutch diaphragm is certainly different - possibly they reduced the number of spring fingers to give a lighter clutch pedal. As you're not putting additional horsepower through it, it will be fine. You would be right to be concerned if you were uprating the engine, I reckon

Release bearing goes with the rotating part facing the clutch diaphragm fingers. The tangs are hooked in easily as Chas says - so don't worry about it too much!

I think it's best to tie the operating arm back with something (maybe a piece of string) to prevent the release bearing being accidentally knocked off during the gearbox refitting. As Chas says, you want to try out the clutch pretty quickly after putting in a couple of the big gearbox-engine bolts (and before you reconnect driveshafts, gearchange etc.)

-Alex

 

[jrainey1981]

Finally finished!!! The car is back together and running and shifting great. I really appreciate everybody's help on this because without it I would have had a much more difficult time.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[(CZ)enda]

Just for information:
I finally got to my clutch change. I was really surprised to find ORIGINAL 1989 Fiat/Valeo clutch on a car with 203 kkm on the odometer (the year of manufacture was stamped both on the pressure plate and the friction plate).
The reason the clutch failed was similar to that above - 6 fingers on the pressure plate were broken.
There was still about 1 mm of the friction material left on the friction plate above the rivets.

 

[alexGS]

Must have had a good driver! Or, perhaps the clutch was old-stock when it was replaced.

I heard a story of 480,000km in an elderly lady's Tempra before the clutch needed replacing. It was the first part that went wrong! Some people, I guess, are just luckier than others. But also, high kms are usually clocked up at motorway speeds/distances, which involve less use of the clutch.

-Alex