Technical Uno 1.4 poor idleing

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Technical Uno 1.4 poor idleing

Goswell

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Hi, i have just signed up, this site looks great.

Could anyone assist. I have just purchased a 1.4 UNO SX. It idles terrible and the revs drop by 200 rpm if the headlights are switched on or the radiator cooling fan kicks in. It has a two throat Weber. The carb has been tuned to run really rich to compensate for the poor idle and this causes it to give only 10 km/l. Other than this, the pull offs and preformance is excellent withot missing a beat.

Thanks

Terry
 
Hi, welcome to the forum (y)

The revs dropping with electrical load makes me suggest checking that the battery is fully charged and that the terminals are tight. But then again, what does it start like? Cranking over quickly?

So instead maybe there is just not enough power from the engine when idling to drive the alternator, in which case things are in a bad way, aren't they... There's usually some audible drop in revs though, say up to 100RPM.

A common fault with most Unos is the vacuum advance diaphragm on the distributor (round capsule with rubber pipe attached). The rubber pipe needs checking as well, for cracks. I pull it off the carburettor, give it a quick clean, and suck on it (really!) to see if there's an air leak through a split diaphragm. If it's OK, there will be a sense of movement inside the distributor and you won't be able to draw any air through it.

After checking/replacing the diaphragm, adjust the ignition timing. Take off the vacuum advance pipe and plug it with something (e.g. a small screw). Then connect a timing light to the No. 1 spark plug and take off the rubber cover on the clutch bellhousing. If you point the timing light at the flywheel you should see a notch somewhere near the four notches in the bottom of the window. Turning the distributor body should cause the notch on the flywheel to 'move'. You're aiming for ten degrees I think. It's difficult to be exact because this model (1372cc carburettor) doesn't exist in the rest of the world!

Actually I'm a little worried that your car could be fitted with 'type 2' electronic ignition, where the distributor does not serve any timing function. These types have a crank angle sensor, and the rubber pipe will be connected to the ECU instead of a vacuum advance capsule. You can check the timing anyway, but it will probably be correct.

As you probably know, the mixture adjustment screw is in the base of the carburettor, usually pointing towards the right side of the car. If you unscrew it, it leans the mixture. Usually you unscrew it and the revs increase drastically (because as you say, someone has enriched it to compensate for an air leak). Basically, you undo it until the revs reach a maximum, then put it back in one turn for good measure. Go around the back and listen to the exhaust - if 'chuffing' then it is too rich, if there is the occasional 'miss' then it's too lean.

Idling on FIAT engines is never particularly good, but you should be able to get it better than it is. Some fluctuation in RPM is normal, and it will always idle a lot slower when cold than hot. Also check the spark plugs - I have read that the idling is better if the electrode gap is WIDER - up to the limit of 0.8mm or so.

Your fuel consumption is probably mostly a product of the ignition timing being off, but also check the air filter (not always as critical as some people suggest, but there are some really neglected cases out there).

Cheers,
-Alex
 
Hi

Vacuum advance ok. Car has electronic igition, timed and advanced on the distribtor. Played with it again yesterday by seting timing, idle & idle mixture. Slight improvement in idle but not correct.
Although the car cranks well and battery shows good strength, I still swapped it with one out of another car. Idle still drops under electrical load. Auto electrician on the cards tomorrow to confirm charge status.

Regards

Terry
 
Good idea to get the alternator diagnosed properly.

Perhaps also try new spark plugs and leads? Did your timing light show timing to advance as engine speed increases or when vacuum advance reconnected? If not, maybe the distributor or electronic module is faulty (not unknown for the module to semi-fail and retard the timing!)

Check any other rubber pipes to carburettor for splits (vacuum leaks). Check intake manifold nuts are tight. Check cam timing is correct - someone may have changed the belt without due care and attention! Since you say the performance is good, this is probably unlikely.

If the carburettor has a fuel cutoff valve (cylinder with single wire near base of carburettor) try unplugging it - engine should stop. If it doesn't, suspect the throttle switch not closing or controller fault - try applying 12V from the ignition coil orange wires - idle should greatly improve!

If adjusting timing and mixture has made little difference, you may like to try removing and cleaning out the carburettor. Get a can of carburettor cleaner - nasty stuff, wear gloves and work outdoors. Use a small metal container (e.g. jar lid) to leave brass jets soaking, then clean with sturdy toothbrush (will probably soften with the solvents...) Clean out all dirt etc. from float bowl. Clean inlet filter mesh (large hex plug) and replace in-line fuel filter if present. Set float level (holding top of carburettor sideways, floats usually hang vertically with needle valve just closed - actual float height 7mm). Fit carburettor with smear of Loctite Master Gasket or similar non-silicone sealer (silicone softens with petrol and causes problems).

Also consider slight modification to carburettor idle jet (particularly if mixture screw seems to have little effect) - it is possible to drill the jet out slightly larger with a very small drill. I think it is already 0.50mm (primary barrel - secondary is 0.70) so perhaps enlarge to 0.60mm.

If still no difference after this, consider checking the valve clearances (inlet 0.40-0.45mm, exhaust 0.45-0.50mm). These rarely require adjustment, so if they do it is probably worth getting an agent to help (special tool desirable plus replacement shims).

Test engine compression to make sure all cylinders are within 10% of each other. This is with a compression test gauge pushed into each spark plug hole in turn - crank engine with throttle open and ignition coil unplugged.

These suggestions are in order of difficulty/likelihood :)

Best of luck with it!
-Alex
 
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I just re-read my post above and realised how it sounded like an army-drill - sorry... :)

As you can imagine, I've fought with bad idling MANY times over the past 15 years, so those are just all the things that come to mind. Hopefully you don't have to do them all... and there are probably a few more things that I've forgotten, so if anyone would like to add any... ;)

-Alex
 
Alex, that post is worthy of a medal! :worship: :worship: :worship:

Well done for outlining all the points that should rectify the idling fault.

Oh, just to add that both my Uno FIRE's have had temperamental idling. Quite normal for the revs to drop about 200rpm when all the electrics are switched on. In fact, I have to adjust the idle speed on my carb depending on winter or summer. With more electrical loads likely to be used in winter the revs could drop so that the engine starts to idle roughly. I'd just wind the screw a bit until it idles smoother. In summer the idle tends to run higher, so I tweak the screw until it idles at approx. 1000 rpm (I have a tachometer in case anyone was wondering).

And I think Alex is right about the idle jet being too small. It's done like that to reduce emissions at tickover and to give the Uno a low emission rating. And I have two 1300 Webers that I have still yet to swap over the idle jets to improve matters, as Alex suggested to me last winter... :rolleyes:
 
Hi

Thanks to both of you. I have been hell of a busy and cannot even find time to get to an auto electrician. Hopefully by the end of the week. Will also check the electro magnetic idle jet hole size. (although new as I replaced it when I bought the car two months ago)

Will get to the root of the problem some time.

Regards

Terry
 
could that be simply bad earth lead connection or (-) battery ?
i assumed our old uno need more proper and better ground connection. i had mine wire connected from carb to engine and to (-) battery.
btw, hi to you all mates :)
 
thx alex, this forum is all fiat great resource.
im driving uno 1.4mk2 '91 to work daily and wherever the road goes :slayer:
engine still in good condition but this cat :)D) need major body repair and respray
 
Hi

Still sitting with the problem. Slowly trying to eliminate possibilities. Carb is well earthed with its own earth wire. I am looking for a diagram and specs for the carb. It is a Weber 32/34 TDLE. Taking it today to a Weber specialist for his opinion.

Terry
 
Hi

On the machines, an air leak was detected on the carb rubber mount. It looked new when in place. Difficult to remove as it bolts on from under the inlet manifold and the bolts are above the exhaust manifold. Eventually got it off and found hairline cracks and partial seperation of rubber and metal. Modified new one by drilling out the threads on in the carb mount and securing with longer bolts and nuts on to of the mount. Now easy to work with. Ideling has improved and I have now managed to get the timing back into spec. Will take it to be propely tuned and hopefully all problems are solved. The revs still drop, as far as I am concerened, too much under large electrical load.

Regards

Terry
 
Ah - damn - that's a common Tipo fault that I've repaired at least twice :)

I forgot that the 1372cc engine in the Uno is basically a Tipo unit.

You're exactly right about the difficulty of accessing the bolts - I know it well.

Thanks very much for posting this info; now we know what to check next time this fault comes around...

You probably saw an electrical heater in the inlet manifold (large finned thing?) This usually has wiring shorts or other problems, and the relay under the dash somewhere melts its socket. At least, it does in the Tipo ;)

-Alex
 
Hi, im back again.

The same ideling problem still surrounds me, BUT, hopefully i've found the answer. The worst set valve clearances i've ever seen. Hopefully I havent burnt any valves but I have 2 inlet clearances of 0.05mm and all other inlet and exhaust clearances are out as well (Average of 0.20 to 0.30 mm too small) I am surprised it actually ran so well (Except for idle). I never checked them before as they are shim adjusted and thus generally are not high maintenance. I should pick up 6 new shims today (Only 2 can be swopped out). Will keep the site posted.


Terry
 
Valve clearances are not something we bother to check very often; you're right in that they seldom need adjustment. Sounds as though some ham-fisted mechanic has been there before, or perhaps they were never set right in the first place... who knows...

Best of luck with it! Having the proper tool speeds the job, but removing the cambox is not too hard, just a little more time-consuming. Good opportunity to replace the belt also.

-Alex
 
HEY,

I am very new to this forum and for around 1 month I was just going through all the posts.I've bought an UNO 45 999 cc just one month back,it's a FIRE 1997Dec Model, and I'm from India.I was a little confused to take it as here there is always probs inavailing right spares/and they r expensive.I took this just bcoz this was of one of my friends and he has a spare car,when he got transfered,he need to sell it, and i took it considerably cheap..Rs.40,000 or 500 pounds. Now, it has lots of minor probs, as the previous user just used to "park" this one and always drivin the other car as that was a diesel one..(yes..here in india,petrol is Damn costly and diesel is 1/2 of Petrol)My uno is Airconditioned and pretty standard one,needs a complete respray,It also got terrible idling problem, and the engine rev drops drastically once the h/l is turned on or the engine fan starts,while idling.I have never looked much beneath the bonnet of the car, but sure no oil leaks and the battery is good ,as well as 4 new LANCIA original spark plugs have been put some 20 days back.Now another problem is , while starting from cold,the engne needs to be warmed..we cant drive away straight as the engine will always stop,and needs at least one minue's warming up..havent checked thouroughly, but local mech says all is ok, but i feel that clutch is a little jumpy( but..after releasing leg from clutch also , if we accelerate mildly in 1,2 gears also the car just tries to jump a little then slows to normal ( this happens 3-4 times a second)but once the engine is properly warmed it's ok [sorry-bad english nd spellings] and, yday i had struck in a trafic jam for 4 hrs, and had to drive continously in 1st and 2nd for around 2 hrs, and it was slightly raining, i was able to see steam from the bonnet--when water falls on it..is it normal or engine was heating excessively ? we have only 2 meters in indian models, no temp guage, so was not sure of overheating..

I need lot of advises from u all experts, as i woulld like to leep this car fore at least a couple of years..and am intenting to keep it in mint condition, going in for a full respray nd patch after the rains are over by end of august.

:)
 
Good news

With the valve clearances within spec, the motor purrs at 800 r/m on an idle (can even sit at 600). No longer does putting on the headlights drop the revs so low that it stalls.
Thanks to the monkey who stuffed up a quite simple task of valve clearance setting. Why did you touch them in the first place? The motor ruins well with them correctly set. Someone should hide his tools.
To the gentleman in India - check your valve clearances - mine also had poor idleing and a large rev drop when putting on the headlights.
To those members to assisted with their contributions, THANKS. Hopefully I can someone else along the way.

Regards

Terry
 
Thanks ,Terrry,

I'm off to the mechanic to see the valve setting s are correct or not.Will post more when back.

:confused:
 
Very interesting Terry!
It's made me think about checking my Uno Turbo's valve clearances, as the engine idling is a little 'stumbling' and uneven, and yes I get a big drop with electrical load - under certain conditions the engine stops when slowing down at intersections, and of course there's no choke to pull out with 'i.e.' (injection).

premrajeev - earlier in this thread I talked about vacuum leaks, e.g. in the pipe to the vacuum advance capsule on the distributor, or the vacuum advance capsule itself. You should also check your ignition timing with a timing light, if you can get hold of one. I think I talked about setting the timing too.

Steam from hot engine parts and even from the radiator (water hitting the outside) is quite normal. Check the coolant level every week or two - shouldn't drop much if at all. I actually have steam from the outside of my Uno Turbo's bonnet when it's raining.

Incidentally your English is fine :) You may like to throw in a few 'Enters' (blank lines) to keep topics apart and make long posts easier to read (for me anyway) ;)

-Alex
 
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