General TwinAir Thread (including MPG)

[rallycinq]

I have an appointment, for a long drive in a twinair.

We will see whether this salesman is telling the truth.

He also has a blackjack in the showroom so I can make a decision about the finish.

Cheers

D

 

[cjc156]

Hope everything goes according to plan.

I'm sure that we all would appreciate another persons perspective on the TwinAir.

Yep, I do hope so... Still no confirmed day, but I hope it is ready for Saturday.

cheers

 

[keeforelli]

quick question grimwau-

i had the 1,2 500..loved but annoyed by bouncy ride and various unresolved niggles-

now have 1.3 tdci KA- great engine, great car, feels VERY grown up compared to 1.2 500 due to much better ride/handling/ steering than on my old 500...more 'proper' if you like.. tho just a tweaked 500 underneath, obvs

the twin air intrigues me hugely- so question- how different is twinair to drive to MJ, and have fiat REALLY nailed the ride/ handling with the rear ARB?

i want a 500 again, and soon, but i was def more annoyed with more things more often than i ever have been with the KA-

is the 500 overall much improved..(since mine in 09 and your original MJ)

perhaps you have a little summary of your thoughts on your old vs new 500?

i would find it very useful...

 

[306maxi]

quick question grimwau-

i had the 1,2 500..loved but annoyed by bouncy ride and various unresolved niggles-

now have 1.3 tdci KA- great engine, great car, feels VERY grown up compared to 1.2 500 due to much better ride/handling/ steering than on my old 500...more 'proper' if you like.. tho just a tweaked 500 underneath, obvs

the twin air intrigues me hugely- so question- how different is twinair to drive to MJ, and have fiat REALLY nailed the ride/ handling with the rear ARB?

i want a 500 again, and soon, but i was def more annoyed with more things more often than i ever have been with the KA-

is the 500 overall much improved..(since mine in 09 and your original MJ)

perhaps you have a little summary of your thoughts on your old vs new 500?

i would find it very useful...

Not to be funny but you know very well that the suspension setup in the Ka with the ARB is identical to that of the 500 right?

For the this kit to fit both the rear beam has to be identical and the front suspension the same too.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BILSTEIN-B14-SUSPENSION-KIT-FIAT-500-FORD-KA-/170588253510

 

[keeforelli]

Not to be funny but you know very well that the suspension setup in the Ka with the ARB is identical to that of the 500 right?

For the this kit to fit both the rear beam has to be identical and the front suspension the same too.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BILSTEIN-B14-SUSPENSION-KIT-FIAT-500-FORD-KA-/170588253510

it is the spring and damper rates, and also the steering set up that remain unique to each...

fiat didnt simply take the KAs suspension settings after realising maybe they had missed a trick...

if the revised fiat is now as good to drive as the KA,it makes buying decisions ALOT easier... the ride and steering in particular are a big advancement over what i had before and i wouldnt go back...

 

[306maxi]

it is the spring and damper rates, and also the steering set up that remain unique to each...

fiat didnt simply take the KAs suspension settings after realising maybe they had missed a trick...

if the revised fiat is now as good to drive as the KA,it makes buying decisions ALOT easier... the ride and steering in particular are a big advancement over what i had before and i wouldnt go back...

Yes but the problems were caused by the rear beam being too soft and the spring rates in the rear being beefed up accordingly. I doubt there will be any big differences in suspension setup between the two cars.

 

[grimwau]

quick question grimwau-

i had the 1,2 500..loved but annoyed by bouncy ride and various unresolved niggles-

now have 1.3 tdci KA- great engine, great car, feels VERY grown up compared to 1.2 500 due to much better ride/handling/ steering than on my old 500...more 'proper' if you like.. tho just a tweaked 500 underneath, obvs

the twin air intrigues me hugely- so question- how different is twinair to drive to MJ, and have fiat REALLY nailed the ride/ handling with the rear ARB?

i want a 500 again, and soon, but i was def more annoyed with more things more often than i ever have been with the KA-

is the 500 overall much improved..(since mine in 09 and your original MJ)

perhaps you have a little summary of your thoughts on your old vs new 500?

i would find it very useful...

To be honest, I never had a problem with the ride/comfort of my old 500 even though it was on 16" wheels. My personal driving style (sedate, I do live in the bath chair capital of the UK after all) may have been partly responsible but I also found that the diesel seemed to me to be a more comfortable ride than the two petrol engined variants.

The wife, who knows nothing about the mechanics chose the diesel just because, to her, it felt nicer to drive. I often wonder if too much knowledge can psychologically lead you to expect something that really is quite intangible and therefore leave you disappointed without really knowing why. Ignorance is sometimes bliss, lol.

With regards to the new car I haven't noticed any major difference except that the road noise may be a little less, probably down to the different make of tyres and the engine noise is louder, down to the well publicised unique, TwinAir sound characteristics.

My real surprise was when I drove some Abarth 500s at the weekend was how good the convertible drove over poor roads, even on 17" wheels. I didn't realise that it had a softer suspension setup to the hatch. (thanks Draigflag )

However, I am going to road test a 95BHP 500 in a couple of weeks so maybe then I will be able to make a more educated comparison.

 

[Mark Elvin]

However, I am going to road test a 95BHP 500 in a couple of weeks so maybe then I will be able to make a more educated comparison.

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts as it looks like it's going to be a 500D of some flavour or other for the next, one of the most economical cars their is that doesn't make me yawn.

 

[rallycinq]

Test driven, at last.

Thoughts.

Love the noise of the twin, does sound like I remember the older one to sound like.

Really quite torquey for a twin, but at 40mph in 5th it was asking me to change down, whereas my diesel will pull from 30 in fifth without complaint.

70mph in 5th in the twin air is 3000rpm against 2600 in the diesel.

MPG? a 30 mile run on varied roads, 70mph motorway, 50 mph motorway, 60 mph national speed limit roads with a bit of 20mph and 30mph town stuff inbetween. Averaged 45mpg. 20 mpg short of where the diesel is.

Now this was a brand new car but is 20mpg increase (nearly 50%) achievable?

A new diesel has a £1000 premium over the Twin air, I would like to think that I would get at least half that back at resale so I am looking at £500 nett increase for an additional (say) 10mpg over 45K. Which is 572 extra litres at £1.30 per litre is £750. ( I know I haven't allowed for the extra cost of diesel over petrol, but doesn't make £250 of a difference)

Ah, you say. Taxation.

Yup the diesel will cost more to tax (£20 0ver £0), and the BIK will be a lot higher. TwinAir £556, £786 for Diesel.

I looked at the Blackjack. Quite like the colour on the exterior but the matt black dash looks pants IMHO.

I am thinking one of the 'by Diesel' ones.

Cheers

D

 

[keeforelli]

Test driven, at last.

Thoughts.

Love the noise of the twin, does sound like I remember the older one to sound like.

Really quite torquey for a twin, but at 40mph in 5th it was asking me to change down, whereas my diesel will pull from 30 in fifth without complaint.

70mph in 5th in the twin air is 3000rpm against 2600 in the diesel.

MPG? a 30 mile run on varied roads, 70mph motorway, 50 mph motorway, 60 mph national speed limit roads with a bit of 20mph and 30mph town stuff inbetween. Averaged 45mpg. 20 mpg short of where the diesel is.

Now this was a brand new car but is 20mpg increase (nearly 50%) achievable?

A new diesel has a £1000 premium over the Twin air, I would like to think that I would get at least half that back at resale so I am looking at £500 nett increase for an additional (say) 10mpg over 45K. Which is 572 extra litres at £1.30 per litre is £750. ( I know I haven't allowed for the extra cost of diesel over petrol, but doesn't make £250 of a difference)

Ah, you say. Taxation.

Yup the diesel will cost more to tax (£20 0ver £0), and the BIK will be a lot higher. TwinAir £556, £786 for Diesel.

I looked at the Blackjack. Quite like the colour on the exterior but the matt black dash looks pants IMHO.

I am thinking one of the 'by Diesel' ones.

Cheers

D

mmm so you prefer a diesel to the twin air?

 

[rallycinq]

mmm so you prefer a diesel to the twin air?

I think the money bit adds up to a Twinair by Diesel, if that makes sense.

The diesel engine may be a bit more economical, but the extra cost of diesel and the extra BIK does make a difference.

Cheers

D

 

[cjc156]

Yep, I do hope so... Still no confirmed day, but I hope it is ready for Saturday.

cheers

Spoke too soon, it will now not be delivered to the dealer until early next week, which means I wont likely be able to collect it until the Saturday afterwards. Hey ho.

 

[rallycinq]

My new one now ordered, awaiting a delivery date.

Cheers

D

 

[grimwau]

Spoke too soon, it will now not be delivered to the dealer until early next week, which means I wont likely be able to collect it until the Saturday afterwards. Hey ho.

My new one now ordered, awaiting a delivery date.

Cheers

D

Great, It was getting lonely, all by myself.

 

[cjc156]

Great, It was getting lonely, all by myself.

Can you remember what date you ordered yours with the dealer?

thanks

 

[grimwau]

Can you remember what date you ordered yours with the dealer?

thanks

Last week in October.

 

[grimwau]

Just filled up the car this morning so I am able to share the following observations with all the interested parties regarding the topic of fuel consumption.

The fuel warning message came on last night and when I checked the "range" it showed ------ so, as I am not as brave (some might say foolhardy, but not me) as Daniel I decided not to see how many miles I could still travel before running out completely.

It was 5.00am so fuel nice and cool and I filled it slowly as no one else was waiting to use the pump. I managed to squeeze in 29.57 ltrs (brimmed) so I reckon there was at least 7 ltrs left in total.

With my Trip A mileage of 230.2 miles that gives me an average of 35.39mpg which is very close to the ACA reading in the car of 35mpg.

After filling I checked the "Range" reading and it indicated 326 miles (my diesel always showed 500 miles) which with the official 35L tank capacity (7.7gals) means that the ECU is estimating your combined consumption to be 42mpg as opposed to the official combined figure of 69mpg.

As always my only direct comparison is with the 75BHP diesel but I think that is better than comparing it to the 1.2 petrol as the advertised fuel consumption figures are almost identical (on paper). However, in real life the 1.3MJT averaged 55mpg each fill up so interesting times ahead as the engine loosens up and new owners contribute their findings.

 

[rallycinq]

However, in real life the 1.3MJT averaged 55mpg each fill up so interesting times ahead as the engine loosens up and new owners contribute their findings.

My 08 MJT averages 65 mpg, so hopefully I can get the twinair over 50mpg...........or all my calculations go out the window.

Cheers

D

 

[Mikey1985]

It was 5.00am so fuel nice and cool and I filled it slowly as no one else was waiting to use the pump. I managed to squeeze in 29.57 ltrs (brimmed) so I reckon there was at least 7 ltrs left in total.

With my Trip A mileage of 230.2 miles that gives me an average of 35.39mpg which is very close to the ACA reading in the car of 35mpg.

35MPG!!!???? do you have your foot on the mat permanently? that is shocking, I get 47 out of my gutless 1.1 C2.

 

[jrkitching]

My 08 MJT averages 65 mpg, so hopefully I can get the twinair over 50mpg...........or all my calculations go out the window.

Given that I get better than 55mpg out of my 1.2 petrol, I'd be disappointed if you didn't. Even our 1.2 Panda (which Ladykitching drives much of the time) has beaten 50mpg through the worst of the winter with a tight engine.