Technical  TwinAir Engine sounds

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Technical  TwinAir Engine sounds

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Mar 27, 2026
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Location
Edinburgh
Hi all

Just curious to see what other's experience with a few of sounds the TwinAir engine makes.

- Engine has a slight rattly/rapid tapping sound, particularly in overdrive at low speeds, in first or second gear particularly although this is not a gearbox related sound. Serviced recently with UFI filter and 3.2L of 0W30 Selenia oil from Shop4parts.

- Current outside temperatures are 15-20C.
- No noticeable difference in the sound between cold or up to temperature engine.
- Engine has 101k miles with full Fiat dealer history, oil changed every ~9k miles (plus the service I've just done at 101k)
- No other symptoms other than the slight rattly sound, runs and drives smoothly.

What are your thoughts?
Any preventative maintenance worth doing, or just a characteristic of the TwinAir engine?

Cheers!
 
Model
Panda Cross
Year
2017
Mileage
101000
Hi all

Just curious to see what other's experience with a few of sounds the TwinAir engine makes.

- Engine has a slight rattly/rapid tapping sound, particularly in overdrive at low speeds, in first or second gear particularly although this is not a gearbox related sound. Serviced recently with UFI filter and 3.2L of 0W30 Selenia oil from Shop4parts.

- Current outside temperatures are 15-20C.
- No noticeable difference in the sound between cold or up to temperature engine.
- Engine has 101k miles with full Fiat dealer history, oil changed every ~9k miles (plus the service I've just done at 101k)
- No other symptoms other than the slight rattly sound, runs and drives smoothly.

What are your thoughts?
Any preventative maintenance worth doing, or just a characteristic of the TwinAir engine?

Cheers!
Your description sounds just like mine (TA 4x4 105k miles). Sounds like it always has done in my ownership (from 48k miles) - I'm not worrying!
 
Your description sounds just like mine (TA 4x4 105k miles). Sounds like it always has done in my ownership (from 48k miles) - I'm not worrying!
Have you any experience using Liqui Moly hydraulic valve lifter oil additive during the servicing process?

I wonder if it may be worth doing as a preventative measure at the next service.
 
Is that turning eco mode off on the motorway or turning it on?

I've stayed out of eco mode for the most part so far. Do you find it makes a noticeable difference in mpgs?
Turning it on, you only need to turn it on momentarily but it gets you out of trouble or boosts your speed for overtaking etc.

MPG is shocking with the TA anyway so I doubt the eco on or off makes much difference.
 
Have you any experience using Liqui Moly hydraulic valve lifter oil additive during the servicing process?

I wonder if it may be worth doing as a preventative measure at the next service.
Personally I would stay very clear of any oil additives as the UniAir system is very "Oil-fussy", stay with the recommended grade and if at all possible manufacturer. There are various links to Uni and Multair articles on here, I've attached one, oil hygiene is quite important! I'm not sure what you are aiming to prevent? The inlet valve timing is essentially controlled by servo valves (no mechanical connection between crankshaft and inlet cam) so oil spec is important so I don't think I would mess with it.

You asked above if I had replaced anything engine wise; as it happens yes... The UniAir module but this should be read in the context of my buying the car at 48k miles with zero service history. I bought it from a dealership at a significantly reduced price on this basis and the unit was replaced about 18 months into my ownership. Since this was replaced nothing else has been touched apart from very regular oil changes - now at 105k miles. There has been a clutch and DMF but that's regular wear and tear in my book.
 

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Turning it on, you only need to turn it on momentarily but it gets you out of trouble or boosts your speed for overtaking etc.

MPG is shocking with the TA anyway so I doubt the eco on or off makes much difference.
I think maybe there is some confusion here? My experience is that the Eco button ON is like throwing a wet blanket over a fire - damps everything down and the normally lively car goes very limp.

I believe there was a change in the ECU programming where on newer cars the default is ECO mode ON at start up. You have to proactively turn it off after starting the engine to enjoy the TA to the full extent. I don't know for sure but I think the change was around 2014 and later - mine is 2013 and default is off! ECO seems to essentially limit revs and likely valve timing via the UniAir module.
 
I think maybe there is some confusion here? My experience is that the Eco button ON is like throwing a wet blanket over a fire - damps everything down and the normally lively car goes very limp.

I believe there was a change in the ECU programming where on newer cars the default is ECO mode ON at start up. You have to proactively turn it off after starting the engine to enjoy the TA to the full extent. I don't know for sure but I think the change was around 2014 and later - mine is 2013 and default is off! ECO seems to essentially limit revs and likely valve timing via the UniAir module.
Aye sorry you're correct it's on by default you need to switch it off.
 
I think maybe there is some confusion here? My experience is that the Eco button ON is like throwing a wet blanket over a fire - damps everything down and the normally lively car goes very limp.

I believe there was a change in the ECU programming where on newer cars the default is ECO mode ON at start up. You have to proactively turn it off after starting the engine to enjoy the TA to the full extent. I don't know for sure but I think the change was around 2014 and later - mine is 2013 and default is off! ECO seems to essentially limit revs and likely valve timing via the UniAir module.
Interesting.. mine is a '17 cross and eco mode stays as it is set, even after engine off. It's not been on since I tried it a few times in my first week of ownership.
 
Personally I would stay very clear of any oil additives as the UniAir system is very "Oil-fussy", stay with the recommended grade and if at all possible manufacturer. There are various links to Uni and Multair articles on here, I've attached one, oil hygiene is quite important! I'm not sure what you are aiming to prevent? The inlet valve timing is essentially controlled by servo valves (no mechanical connection between crankshaft and inlet cam) so oil spec is important so I don't think I would mess with it.

You asked above if I had replaced anything engine wise; as it happens yes... The UniAir module but this should be read in the context of my buying the car at 48k miles with zero service history. I bought it from a dealership at a significantly reduced price on this basis and the unit was replaced about 18 months into my ownership. Since this was replaced nothing else has been touched apart from very regular oil changes - now at 105k miles. There has been a clutch and DMF but that's regular wear and tear in my book.
Fantastic thank-you for sharing that info, going to give that a thorough read over breakfast 🤓

Did you replace the UniAir system yourself? If so, how did the job itself go?
 
Compared with anything else these things make some pretty weird noises. Clunking, hicking wheezing farting. Its all somewhat odd even after 9 years. SOmnetimes when you are coasting along and the ticking zipper like noises start you think whats it doing now... I no longer pay much attention, if its running on both cylinders and half evenly that'll do. The tickover varies from fast to very slow with no apparent reason, again take no notice. It sounds sometimes smooth and refined and other times as rough as a badgers bottom. The uniair is responsible for some of the chatter. SO far all seems to be OK and it does more oin every direction than I ever expected. Tyres make a massive impact on economy. Summer tyres use a LOT less fuel. Its possible - in mine - to get over 60mpg, but dont wait to do it if you are over 50 or you might not get there.

Winter tyres give me about 35mpg or 45 to 50 on a long run with effert, Summer tyres its 39 to 43mpg and 52 -56 on a run.

My two TAs have been totally different. The 2019 car is much quicker. Its eco power is equivalent to a 1.2 but better on hills, With eco off it is brisk and the overtaking capacity is suprising or even shocking. Eco does use less fuel but only at lower speeds. Over 50 or so it seems to be identical on or off and a gentle right foot makes it better with eco off, but beware if you use all 85 or 90 HP and you will consume fuel accordingly. In convoi with a 69hp 1.2 its clear hills and overtaking are much easier.

The acid question is, would I buy another, and the answer is probably not. The sword hanging over my head, of the rubbish DMF and the expensively fabulous, and fabulously expensive uniair mean I dont really trust it. Will I sell it? Thats difficult, I totally love thiis car, its comfortable, capable of 400 miles in a day, fully loaded, and with ease, it can tow way more than it says it can, 400kgs on the back doesnt even make it breathe heavily. You will NEVER get stuck and you can cruise at its maximum speed, it can also do 60+miles to the gallon if you must, the steering is superb, the brakes staggering and road holding not too bad for a 4x4 either. The only things I dont like areroad noise and fear of the uniair and DMF. I paid around 12500 for m,ne factory order with buckets of extras 7 years ago and its dropped at the very worst to £10500 so yep I love it. But we have Ruby a 2014 1.2 loung and its in truly staggering condition I reckon every bit as good as when new. We've had that 7 years too and its not dropped at all in value. When we drop to one car, coming soonish, I think Ruby will be the one we keep, cheaper to fuel, service, insure and tax, not as quick, but more economical and MUCH easier to repair if required. Someone will getone of hte very the best 4x4 in the UK with the most comprehensive service records and a lot of nice goodies if we get rid of him. I think I will keep him and be burried oin him! A cheap family tomb. LOL

One last word, oil additives in a TA. No kin fear. The TA oil does a lot, it takes heat from a turbo so 650C cooking, and it takes1500psi pressure in the uniair. Additives NO chance. Only to quieten it if selling in PX and only if absolutely necessary and even then its a bad idea. I reckon change the oil every 5000 miles to be safe. Convenient as this is about my annual milage since retirement. LOL
 
Did you replace the UniAir system yourself? If so, how did the job itself go?

I didn't the car had been with a "specialist" who it turns out had bitten off more than they can chew (and incidentally are no longer in business) and were having trouble with diagnosing the symptoms (misfire). So they ended up taking it to a main dealer for the diagnosis and paid them to do the job. In the end I made a contribution after some extended conversations... In nursing it around on one cylinder I think they were responsible for killing the clutch too which was also done.
 
I'd say it's the best car we've ever had, it's bonkers, there's no getting away with that but it's just brilliant.

We actually bought it for our dog, who sadly passed away two years ago, still miss him terribly, anyway the plan was to drive to Portugal/ Northern Spain and head back down through France and back home after maybe six months away, bit of a pipe dream though.

We did get away with him a few times but not abroad.

The car's a keeper, my wife drives it and loves it, it's her car now:D
 
Compared with anything else these things make some pretty weird noises. Clunking, hicking wheezing farting. Its all somewhat odd even after 9 years. SOmnetimes when you are coasting along and the ticking zipper like noises start you think whats it doing now... I no longer pay much attention, if its running on both cylinders and half evenly that'll do. The tickover varies from fast to very slow with no apparent reason, again take no notice. It sounds sometimes smooth and refined and other times as rough as a badgers bottom. The uniair is responsible for some of the chatter. SO far all seems to be OK and it does more oin every direction than I ever expected. Tyres make a massive impact on economy. Summer tyres use a LOT less fuel. Its possible - in mine - to get over 60mpg, but dont wait to do it if you are over 50 or you might not get there.

Winter tyres give me about 35mpg or 45 to 50 on a long run with effert, Summer tyres its 39 to 43mpg and 52 -56 on a run.

My two TAs have been totally different. The 2019 car is much quicker. Its eco power is equivalent to a 1.2 but better on hills, With eco off it is brisk and the overtaking capacity is suprising or even shocking. Eco does use less fuel but only at lower speeds. Over 50 or so it seems to be identical on or off and a gentle right foot makes it better with eco off, but beware if you use all 85 or 90 HP and you will consume fuel accordingly. In convoi with a 69hp 1.2 its clear hills and overtaking are much easier.

The acid question is, would I buy another, and the answer is probably not. The sword hanging over my head, of the rubbish DMF and the expensively fabulous, and fabulously expensive uniair mean I dont really trust it. Will I sell it? Thats difficult, I totally love thiis car, its comfortable, capable of 400 miles in a day, fully loaded, and with ease, it can tow way more than it says it can, 400kgs on the back doesnt even make it breathe heavily. You will NEVER get stuck and you can cruise at its maximum speed, it can also do 60+miles to the gallon if you must, the steering is superb, the brakes staggering and road holding not too bad for a 4x4 either. The only things I dont like areroad noise and fear of the uniair and DMF. I paid around 12500 for m,ne factory order with buckets of extras 7 years ago and its dropped at the very worst to £10500 so yep I love it. But we have Ruby a 2014 1.2 loung and its in truly staggering condition I reckon every bit as good as when new. We've had that 7 years too and its not dropped at all in value. When we drop to one car, coming soonish, I think Ruby will be the one we keep, cheaper to fuel, service, insure and tax, not as quick, but more economical and MUCH easier to repair if required. Someone will getone of hte very the best 4x4 in the UK with the most comprehensive service records and a lot of nice goodies if we get rid of him. I think I will keep him and be burried oin him! A cheap family tomb. LOL

One last word, oil additives in a TA. No kin fear. The TA oil does a lot, it takes heat from a turbo so 650C cooking, and it takes1500psi pressure in the uniair. Additives NO chance. Only to quieten it if selling in PX and only if absolutely necessary and even then its a bad idea. I reckon change the oil every 5000 miles to be safe. Convenient as this is about my annual milage since retirement. LOL
Happy days then!

It is a rather different ownership experience having a TA so it seems 😎 My plan is essentially to follow the service schedule as well as do oil and filter change every ~five thousand miles, whichever is soonest.

Also I will take it to Mclennans - the Fiat specialist over in Loanhead near Edinburgh - once a year for them to do an MOT and give it a check over to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Having worked in the motor trade (partsman, not mechanic) when I was younger and driven a lot of different cars as a result, the Panda Cross TA and 4x4 are without a doubt some of the most fun cars I've driven. Just wish I owned one sooner!

Bags of character and quirky in nature but it also stimulates the same part of the brain that fruit machines do - "That's a new noise, is that good or is this going to leave me £££'s out of pocket? Lets find out.."
 
Happy days then!

It is a rather different ownership experience having a TA so it seems 😎 My plan is essentially to follow the service schedule as well as do oil and filter change every ~five thousand miles, whichever is soonest.

Also I will take it to Mclennans - the Fiat specialist over in Loanhead near Edinburgh - once a year for them to do an MOT and give it a check over to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Having worked in the motor trade (partsman, not mechanic) when I was younger and driven a lot of different cars as a result, the Panda Cross TA and 4x4 are without a doubt some of the most fun cars I've driven. Just wish I owned one sooner!

Bags of character and quirky in nature but it also stimulates the same part of the brain that fruit machines do - "That's a new noise, is that good or is this going to leave me £££'s out of pocket? Lets find out.."
One of our neighbours who is a good friend has had a 500 twin air for several years now. It sits in the street most of the time and sounds like a right old bag of nails when started from cold. They are not "car people" but even so decided to ask their servicing garage if anything was wrong with it. They were told no, nothing wrong, they all pretty much sound like that to a greater or lesser degree. I'm often in my garage with the up and over door open so hear cars coming and going in the street and it's very noticeable how much quieter it is when fully warmed up. Still sounds a bit "rough" though compared to many twin cylinder motorcycle engines for instance.

I think the indirect control of valve timing offered by the hydraulic system (Uniair, Multiair and, I believe now the new Firefly Global engine family) is a very clever innovation which, in theory, offers many advantages. Unfortunately, in practice, it seems that it delivers on most fronts until something goes wrong with it whereupon it can quickly make your wallet weep with the pain. I endorse what's said above about engine oil. The oil has a very tough job to do in this engine - more than any other standard or turbocharged road going engine I can think of - so is likely to go "out of spec" more quickly than in a simpler engine and, because of the hydraulic valve actuation, is likely to affect running amongst other parameters when it does. Personally, if I owned one, I'd use only the recommended Selenia oil (as I understand the spec was developed with them?) and never add any "witches brews" to it. Changing it before the recommended interval probably won't hurt either.

When I think on the reports of problems with the D/M flywheel. Although it will have been specifically designed for this 2 cylinder engine I can't help wondering if a D/M design is a poor choice for any twin. My thinking is that the power pulses on a multicylinder, be it 4, 6, 8 or whatever, will be much more smoothly delivered to the flywheel than it is with a twin. Anyone who has ridden a twin cylinder motor cycle, especially an old British one, will know about the vibrations twins can suffer from. All right, now we've got balance shafts - the twin air has one doesn't it? and these devices will undoubtedly reduce vibration but won't do anything to smooth power pulses. So, I'm not at all surprised when I read reports of early D/M failure on these.

Our Becky - 169 Panda with the 1.2 FIRE engine - is getting very long in the tooth now and it's becoming a bit of a trade off as to whether keeping her running is worth the expense of replacing bits of her when they fail - for instance the rear axle - now I'm too old and decrepit to do the job myself or just buying a newer car to replace her. If we are to replace her with another Panda it would have to be a 1.2 FIRE, which is a pity as Mrs J, who is by far the main driver, (she hates my "big" car) would love another Panda but I'm not prepared to consider the Firefly or in fact anything other than the 1.2 FIRE. Thought The fates were acting on my behalf the other day when I walked past Peter Howard Johnston's garage on my way to the library and saw this on the forecourt: https://www.howard-johnston.co.uk/u...lgrip-euro-6-ss-5dr-edinburgh-202605192527936 It is quite a bit more money than I was thinking of but I know this dealer well and he has an excellent reputation for only trading the very best of vehicles. On past experience there may be a possibility of some haggling bearing fruit too. BUT, then I noticed it's AWD and, although the Suzuki system does have a good reputation for being trouble free, it's a complication I'd rather do without. A lower spec 2WD is really what fit's our requirements better anyway. Mind you, it's going to take a very big lever to prise Mrs J away from her Panda when there is no alternative.

Edit. Murdo, you must let me know how you find McLennan's. I've heard good things of them, and my son nearly put his Audi in there a year or so ago (before his friend, who owns PME took over servicing it for him). PME is very handy for him being, just, within walking distance of his home in Gorebridge if the worst come to the worst.
 
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One of our neighbours who is a good friend has had a 500 twin air for several years now. It sits in the street most of the time and sounds like a right old bag of nails when started from cold. They are not "car people" but even so decided to ask their servicing garage if anything was wrong with it. They were told no, nothing wrong, they all pretty much sound like that to a greater or lesser degree. I'm often in my garage with the up and over door open so hear cars coming and going in the street and it's very noticeable how much quieter it is when fully warmed up. Still sounds a bit "rough" though compared to many twin cylinder motorcycle engines for instance.

I think the indirect control of valve timing offered by the hydraulic system (Uniair, Multiair and, I believe now the new Firefly Global engine family) is a very clever innovation which, in theory, offers many advantages. Unfortunately, in practice, it seems that it delivers on most fronts until something goes wrong with it whereupon it can quickly make your wallet weep with the pain. I endorse what's said above about engine oil. The oil has a very tough job to do in this engine - more than any other standard or turbocharged road going engine I can think of - so is likely to go "out of spec" more quickly than in a simpler engine and, because of the hydraulic valve actuation, is likely to affect running amongst other parameters when it does. Personally, if I owned one, I'd use only the recommended Selenia oil (as I understand the spec was developed with them?) and never add any "witches brews" to it. Changing it before the recommended interval probably won't hurt either.

When I think on the reports of problems with the D/M flywheel. Although it will have been specifically designed for this 2 cylinder engine I can't help wondering if a D/M design is a poor choice for any twin. My thinking is that the power pulses on a multicylinder, be it 4, 6, 8 or whatever, will be much more smoothly delivered to the flywheel than it is with a twin. Anyone who has ridden a twin cylinder motor cycle, especially an old British one, will know about the vibrations twins can suffer from. All right, now we've got balance shafts - the twin air has one doesn't it? and these devices will undoubtedly reduce vibration but won't do anything to smooth power pulses. So, I'm not at all surprised when I read reports of early D/M failure on these.

Our Becky - 169 Panda with the 1.2 FIRE engine - is getting very long in the tooth now and it's becoming a bit of a trade off as to whether keeping her running is worth the expense of replacing bits of her when they fail - for instance the rear axle - now I'm too old and decrepit to do the job myself or just buying a newer car to replace her. If we are to replace her with another Panda it would have to be a 1.2 FIRE, which is a pity as Mrs J, who is by far the main driver, (she hates my "big" car) would love another Panda but I'm not prepared to consider the Firefly or in fact anything other than the 1.2 FIRE. Thought The fates were acting on my behalf the other day when I walked past Peter Howard Johnston's garage on my way to the library and saw this on the forecourt: https://www.howard-johnston.co.uk/u...lgrip-euro-6-ss-5dr-edinburgh-202605192527936 It is quite a bit more money than I was thinking of but I know this dealer well and he has an excellent reputation for only trading the very best of vehicles. On past experience there may be a possibility of some haggling bearing fruit too. BUT, then I noticed it's AWD and, although the Suzuki system does have a good reputation for being trouble free, it's a complication I'd rather do without. A lower spec 2WD is really what fit's our requirements better anyway. Mind you, it's going to take a very big lever to prise Mrs J away from her Panda when there is no alternative.

Edit. Murdo, you must let me know how you find McLennan's. I've heard good things of them, and my son nearly put his Audi in there a year or so ago (before his friend, who owns PME took over servicing it for him). PME is very handy for him being, just, within walking distance of his home in Gorebridge if the worst come to the worst.
It'll likely be in the next couple of months that I visit so I will indeed let you know how it goes with them.

I've spoken to them on the phone for advice once before and the chap I spoke to very much knew his stuff, so all being well, they'll be a useful garage to have within a sensible distance of home.

As for the firefly engine, is that the 1L engine found in the hybrid 500s nowadays? One of those parked beside us at Crammond this morning and I actually looked up what engine was in it out of curiosity - it was indeed the 1L with a hybrid system.

I saw on another post yesterday that they (perhaps in only a few instances) can be a horror show of software issues and seemingly unexplainable misfires if you get a Friday afternoon firefly engine. Here's hoping these are isolated instances rather than a sign of more widespread issues to come with them.

Edit: The Suzuki Ignis for sale at Peter Howard Johnston's looks very nice indeed. Me and my Fiancee have talked about possibly buying one of these in the future as well, should she ever learn to drive.
There are plenty of reviews on youtube about them that mention good reliability and, arguably more importantly, their simplicity and repairability.
 
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