Technical Trying to add Steering Wheel Controls to Ducato 290

[Andycat]

First time Ive posted here, hoping someone can help. I have a 2016 Swift Rio Motorhome, based on Ducato 290, tying to add SWC for the Fiat 250 VP1 radio, I changed plain Steering wheel for 8 button one, changed clock spring for 3 cable version, used MultiEcuscan to add 8 button controls and Proxi align, but buttons dont control radio, Silly question, can the 250 VP1 radio be used with SWC buttons ?
thanks,
Andy

 

[HughJampton]

AFAIK, the VP1 accepts steering wheel controls.

They should interface with the radio by means of a 20-way connector on its rear. I'm not sure how you've configured your changes, but I would check that there is continuity (i.e. that you have complete wiring, or the connector actually exists, and/or hasn't been left "floating" in the radio compartment).

Edited to add schematic, and to clarify that there is a possibility (depending on configuration) that other pins on that connector might be used for other purposes.

 

[Andycat]

thanks for that, i beleive there is a canbus coder in the left hand button module ?, buttons talk canbus to Radio ?, there appears to be canbus data on the top clock spring connector (looked with oscilloscope), and there appears to be canbus at the radio connector, pins 2 and 12, in MES it says DAB radio fitted, and i enabled the 8 button SWC, not sure how to work out why it doesnt work

 

[HughJampton]

I'm sure there are people on here that have undertaken this, that are better qualified than me to be confident, but FWIW, here's my view.

The schematic I attached above is from the Ducato Upfitters Manual. It specifically details the connections provided when there are SWCs, but no OE radio. It is relatively clear that they expect you to use analog/resistive signals (not uncommon) for remote function in this particular case.

Aftermarket adapters for the replacement of the OE radio by another also expect to provide analog/resistive SW signals to the replacement radio.

I can find schematics of Fiat radios that label pins 10/11/12 on a 20 pin connector as the SWC connections set out above (A/B/Ground).

I don't have SWCs on my Ducato, but an aftermarket radio, and the instructions for that are clear if SWCs are present; the SWC commands come from the 20 pin connector (and as three signals). B1/B2 are the two 8 pin connectors to the radio, the one below is the 20 pin.

Whilst there will certainly be Canbus signals for other function(s) at the radio, and quite possibly others measurable at the clock spring (from any other controls around the steering wheel, or the airbag?) it looks fairly Iikely to me that the SWCs are separate from the Canbus, and analog/resistive.

I still think I would be looking to check there was an analog connection through from the SWC kit you've installed to the/a 20 pin socket on the back of the radio.

=========

It occurs to me that I've based much of this on evidence of a vehicle built without an OE radio. It may well be that Fiat practice differs between fitment of an OE radio, and "Radio Prep", where the vehicle is delivered ready for an aftermarket radio. It is thus possible that there is different connectivity in each case, and the OE radio control is indeed full Canbus in the former, and that analog signals are provided in the latter. (though I have definitely found images of OE Fiat radio connections with the 20-pin analog inputs)

 

[HughJampton]

Further to the above, you might find this comprehensive thread useful:

Wohnmobil Forum

(Use Google Translate)

 

[Andycat]

Hi Hugh Thanks for all this,
My buttons (7 button version) do indeed have a resistance network in them, but none of the wires appears to make it to the Radio, and there definately appears to be canbus on the Clockspring, my radio (Fiat 250 VP1 DAB) has canbus on pins 2 and 12. see attached pic.
Im beginning to think I have the wrong buttons, and that the 8 button version has a canbus interface.
Andy

 

[HughJampton]

There is a comment from someone in that German thread that the 20 pin connector and wiring is not present on his 'van, and theorising that it could have been deleted for vehicles without the SWC factory fitted.

Your pinout photo does rather imply no facility for resistive input for your radio, and the Proxi-Align process in MultiECUscan notes that systems incorporating "Blue & Me" require the 8 button control. I suspect yours might be so equipped (from vintage and described function) but my experience is limited to vans without the factory radio. Take care, because I can find clear listings that the 7 button controls are not compatible with the VP2 (with Nav function), which begs the question whether the 8 button ones are compatible with the VP1 (though I can't say anything that denies this).

I could theorise that "Blue & Me" units are Canbus controlled.

That German thread has an awful lot of info, and implies the 7 button version is (largely) resistive, and the 8 (largely) Canbus, but it is a hard read, and possibly contradictory at times.

FWIW, I've just looked at the Uconnect 5.0 radio manual for your vintage of 'van, and it shows what I take to be the 8-button controls (with the additional "voice activation" as the bottom-left button).

 

[Andycat]

So I now know more than I ever wanted about Ducato steering wheel controls, but it is now working, just not quite how I planned.

Im going to detail everything I did, in the hope it may help someone else.

After looking at several wheels with controls, from my era of Van (2016), they are all analogue, 3 wire systems, 4 different resistances to ground from each set of switches,

On the (my) 290, these go via a clockspring ( with 3 cables/connectors on top, containing 9 wires in total).

3 wires for SWC

2 wires for LED illumination of the buttons.

2 for Horn

2 for Airbag

From the wiring diagram I got of the 290, the 3 wires go to the rear of the Body Computer on Connector M001H on pins 38 (LH SWC) pin 51 (RH SWC) and pin 53 (Common return both SWC), and are coded by the Body computer on to the radio Low-speed Canbus

I bought a complete Stalk assembly from Ebay for £85 (looks new), with what looked like the correct 3 cable clockspring, and JUST fitted the clockspring.

I then bought and fitted a Steering Wheel with controls from Ebay for £60 (looks new) , with 8 buttons, although bottom left button has no graphic, my VP1 radio doesn’t have voice control.

I programmed the Body computer (using MES) to use the 8 button SWC. And proxy aligned.

Result: NO CONTROL OF THE RADIO

So the question was, is it the radio ?, is it the body computer ?, is it the clockspring/switch assembly. Is it the wiring ?, is it Me ?

I bought a CanDoISO Canbus monitor from Canalyser, I monitored the 50 kbps canbus at the back of the radio, and was able to see that on PID Hex ID 6284000, the SWC commands were arriving at the radio, For info, the hex values are

RH: Phone hangup D1 hex 01,Phone Answer D1 hex 02, Down arrow D1 hex 08 Up arrow D1 hex 10

LH: Mute, D1 hex20, Plus D1 hex80, Minus D1 hex 40, unmarked button D2 Hex40

From this I deemed it was the radio at fault, I couldn’t find anything online about software upgrades for the VP1 radio, and I couldn’t find any secret menus which might have stopped it working. There is lots online about upgrading VP2 radios, but not the VP1.

As the SWC and Clockspring worked, I decided to fit a Sony XAV-AX1005DB radio, it has Apple Carplay, DAB, Bluetooth (phone and streaming) and takes analogue SWC,

It is a 2Din fascia, but the body is only 1 Din, and I thought I might be able to fit it in the existing backbox.

Rather than use a Canbus to Analogue converter, I decided to cut the 3 cables in the loom where they come out of the bottom of the clockspring connector, and extend them to the radio. Which is basically how the Ducato chassis is supplied to some Motorhome manufacturers who fit aftermarket radios, There is a wiring diagram showing this,

Of the 9 cables, The 2 main SWC cables are the 2 white ones (one has a green tracer, the other has a grey tracer, ) there are 3 black earth cables, cant see any tracers, (one for LED lights on SWC, one for horn, one for SWC buttons), I was lucky I cut the correct one first. ( I would recommend disconnecting the battery, as the airbag cables are on this connector)

I extended these to the back of the radio, using a cable I bought from CPC, (AV22649) did a custom SWC setup on the radio, and it all worked,

I used a wiring harness from Ebay, motor-solutions , ebay item number 292265682022

And a fascia adapter from Ebay, jt.audio-stereospares , ebay item number 154519447079

FM Aerial adapter from Amazon Amazon product ASIN B09M8JXC49
2 main problems fitting the Sony radio,

1: The Sony XAV-AX1005DB doesn’t have an OFF button, and the Ducato doesn’t have an Accessory position on the ignition, to allow listening to the radio with the engine off.

I elected to fit an extra switch on the dashboard, (picture is of before i drilled the dashboard) to the right of the steering wheel, that allow me to feed the red wire of the radio, either from a permanent live (the yellow wire at the sony), or from a switched live (I stole a feed from the Cigar lighter socket on the dashboard)

I used a 3 position switch, (middle = off) so I can turn the radio off when the engine is running, should I want to,

2: Physically fitting the Radio, It mounts in to the existing cage, with a 3mm aluminium bar spacer glued (hot glue gun) to top of radio at front. Seems sturdy, I then had to cut the back at the bottom of the “letterbox” of the Fascia adapter by 15mm so it would sit flush, and trim the back of sides of the letterbox accordingly.

I then fitted the radio, masked the front of the radio, and ran a bead of silicon around the side of the radio, 5mm back from the front, and carefully pushed the fascia plate on, smoothed the silicone with wet finger, have to be careful that the PopUp Ipad holder doesn’t foul the fascia,

When its set, it all pushes in and out as one unit, very like the original VP1 radio, Main drawback is that there is no locking mechanism, but by making the packing spacer on top of the radio the right height, it is a firm push fit.

Just needed then to tell the body computer there was no radio, and proxy align, to stop the mileage flashing.

Photos attached.

Any questions let me know

Andy

 

[Andycat]

addendum, the black wire return for the steering wheel control, where I cut the loom, has a purple tracer,

 

[con95a]

Hi there, thanks for your detailed post. I'm trying to do the exact same thing with a Doblo 263 van, which I think share some similarities.
I have a couple of questions if you can possibly help.
If your van had swc from factory, would those signals from swc have been transmitted through CAN or resistance based?
If it would have been CAN, have I understood correctly that taking the swc wires from the back of clock spring directly to the aftermarket radio was enough for the radio to assign values to the button presses?

Hope the questions make sense. I've been mulling over this project for months.
Thanks for taking the time to read this