Technical Tie rods

[Dalemaltby]

I need to take the tie rods off my mk1 seat marbella but there being a bugger to get off. Any ideas out there of a easy solution. Cant take the rack out of the car cus the engine is mounted to closes to it. Cheers

 

[portland_bill]

Re-post this in "Panda Classic" to get the attention of the right people. Then someone will talk you through it.

 

[Goudrons]

Buy the correct tool.
A Lisle 45750 inner tie rod tool will just about fit any tie rod and make the job simple.

 

[Bougainvillea Rosso]

Have you applied heat?

EDIT
Sorry, just realised I was thinking rod ends.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

A good pair of mole grips on the portion of the tie rod which I believe has flats on it if you can see past any rust...If there aren't any flats on it just grip onto the non threaded portion wherever you can...
...then an open ended spanner on the nut and a reasonable amount of bravery and care not to slip off and punch the inner wing!! Releasing fluid might be useful here or WD40. Spray and leave for a bit to give it the best chance to get into the threads.
You won't have to hold both the mole grips and the spanner as the mole grips will turn and eventually find something to stop against.

Hope that helps!

Si

Trust me though this method works, I have 2 ancient rusty pre-86 Pandas which will be a damn sight more corroded and crudded up I am sure.

But to re-iterate (as I was skipping some steps)...
So here we have the tie rod to make sure we are talking about the same thing

The tie rod shaft that screws into this also has a lock nut which is tightened on. You must loosen this nut so you must turn this 'clockwise' to move the nut in towards the car. If you are trying to undo this the other way (the nut can look a little bit like it is part of the tie rod end but it isn't) then it will just get tighter and tighter and eventually break the thread / round the nut.

The mole grips go on the thin shaft which goes into the steering rack and will hold; just put them on very tight.

Once the locking nut is free you can unscrew the tie rod end (anti-clockwise). It should be possible to undo it by hand as you get a good lever on it using the ball joint bit. If not maybe use another set of mole grips on it (there might be some flats on the tie rod end you can use a spanner on - I am not 100% sure).

Again as I said before use plenty of light oil like WD40 and it will come off easy enough!
Also watch your knuckles because the tie rod can move and cause the spanner to slip off the locking nut.

 

[portland_bill]

With the latest post, there is some confusion as to what is needed here.

The picture above is NOT a tie rod. It is a track rod end.
The rod that goes from this into the steering rack is a track rod. This screws into the end of the rack and contains an inner ball joint where it attaches to the rack. This is what some of us thought was the issue raised by the OP.

The "tie rod" is the rod that attaches to the bottom suspension arm at one end and the body of the car at the other, to prevent the bottom arm moving back and forwards as the suspension moves vertically.

Perhaps the OP would like to clarify exactly what he is trying to remove, so that the correct answer can be given.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Fair enough, I will stand corrected if this is the case! But I think the term tie rod can be used to describe the track rod also. A tie rod is simply a threaded bar for joining any structure.

For this case though I think he is asking about the track rod end because of a post in another thread:

Any tricks to getting these tie rods off??? Mine are solid. Cant really take the rack out either as the engine is mounted really close to it

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-cla...ella-mk1-panda-suspension-bike-engined-4.html

However, if we are talking tie rods in the suspension then the problem is likely to be how to remove the tie rod from the ball joint end at the wheel hub? That can be a pain but basically you need a ball joint splitter. The standard dodgy cast ball joint splitter most places seem to sell will almost definitely damage the boot that seals the ball joint (which is a push fit item unfortunately so best to avoid damaging that if possible).
Anyway I modified my ball joint splitter to be a little wider to avoid pinching the boot. I also use a car jack to put some light pressure on the joint while tapping with a hammer to loosen it. Keep the nut on the end though to avoid damaging the threads. It is a tapered push fit so will take a bit of effort to break free. The jack and using the cars weight really helps though...again some sort of penetrating fluid will help here.

The other end is a simple nut / rubber bush so shouldn't have any trouble there.

Hopefully covered all eventualities here anyway! :devil:

 

[Dalemaltby]

Ok then its the track rod which threds onto the steering rack. There no flats on it to get a spanner on. Tried molegrips but i just keep loosing knuckles lol. Its not corroded as it has a rubber boot on it and is covered with grease. Obviously ive wiped the grease off now though

 

[portland_bill]

Perhaps the OP would like to clarify which bit he's having difficulty with.
(Didn't remember a ball joint on the tie rod. Item13 1st pic)

 

[Bougainvillea Rosso]

I don't think it's any of those parts. It's the inner steering tie rod I think he's talking about. One of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Pand...Car+Make:Fiat|Model:Panda&hash=item4615fd9143 Am I right? That's as much help as I can be as I've never removed one.

 

[purple haze]

I don't think it's any of those parts. It's the inner steering tie rod I think he's talking about. One of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Pand...Car+Make:Fiat|Model:Panda&hash=item4615fd9143 Am I right? That's as much help as I can be as I've never removed one.

It's looking that way... easy way to sort it would be a photo. Got a camera phone?

 

[Dalemaltby]

 

[purple haze]

Would it be easier to buy a secondhand rack??

 

[portland_bill]

OK, we are now sure what we are advising on.

The tie rod ball joint housing, where it screws into the rack end, will often have flats on it to engage a spanner. (Mole grips, slip-joint pliers, etc.) Unluckily, yours do not.

They should be normal right-hand thread, so gripping the outside of the joint housing with mole grips should make it let go. This is best done with the joint as close to the rack housing as possible, to support the rack, but access is difficult. If you need to extend the rack, you need to grip the rack with your second mole grip, making sure the rack teeth are protected from damage.

Just looked at my old haynes for the Panda. They say the inner joint is adjustable and therefore has a locknut, which is staked to prevent it loosening. You'll need to clean it well and look to see if it has a locknut inboard of the joint, then find the staked bit and "unstake" it, then loosen the locknut and all should come off then.

If it is like the one on the Ebay link, it will just need holding tight and turning. More grovelling underneath needed to determine what you've got.

You'll need large molegrips, in good condition. Old, worn, or too small ones will just fight back. Or a good quality slip-joint pliers. Good luck, and don't forget to swear a lot while under the car.

 

[Dalemaltby]

I will look for how its locked off then. That must be why it wont come loose. Job for next week now tho. Cant be arsed on a sunday

 

[dave]

just done one on my croma, we used mole grips but mate with a garage says he uses big water pump pliers.

you need to use thread lock when fitting the new one.