R
Roberto
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Re: Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
Spot On
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Spot On
On The Ball City !!
The Dream Team
This is what Ron Atkinson said - Contains Audio Clip of Actual Event - Be Warned
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This is what Ron Atkinson said - Contains Audio Clip of Actual Event - Be Warned
B
Barakka
Guest
Re: Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
The point is why did he have to add the last word, why not "f**king lazy git", the choice of the last word, and the fact that he felt he needed to use it makes it a racist comment, plain and simple.
A few people have used the comparison of when the word is used in films etc. between friends but in that case is not used for discrimination purposes, therefore not racism.
The comparison of calling someone fat is not racism, just not very nice. And the comparison of Scottish/Welsh/English people calling each other is also not racism, same race, it's Xenophobic which as far as i'm aware is not illegal in this country.
The point is why did he have to add the last word, why not "f**king lazy git", the choice of the last word, and the fact that he felt he needed to use it makes it a racist comment, plain and simple.
A few people have used the comparison of when the word is used in films etc. between friends but in that case is not used for discrimination purposes, therefore not racism.
The comparison of calling someone fat is not racism, just not very nice. And the comparison of Scottish/Welsh/English people calling each other is also not racism, same race, it's Xenophobic which as far as i'm aware is not illegal in this country.
O
Ozric-Al
Guest
Re: Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
It's not the words you use but the intent behind the words that is or is not BIGOTED.
For example:-
If I was to go up to a black woman in the street and say "You are very black" it could be that I mean it as a compliment or as a derogatory statement depending on the inflection of my voice. Because of the history of Bigotry I would expect that as I am white it is likely that offence would be taken but perhaps I am actually attracted to darker skinned women and am registering an interest (be it somewhat clumsily). If I was to say "You are very much a N***er" I would expect it to be taken as a racist comment. The only reason being that the N word has historically only been used by whites as a form of put down.
Example 2 is what I call the "Father Ted Effect". In Father Ted the word Feck is used instead of FU*K but is it any less inflammatory? The simple answer is that it isn't because it doesn't have a history of causing offence yet we all know that it is a direct substitution. It's like the difference between the word Negro and the N word. If Negro had historically been the word used to subjugate the race instead of the N word (which BTW was a word used for centuries as a descriptor for a colour of ink and dye) then that would be offensive. If anyone has seen "The Dambusters" you'll know what I mean. The squadron leader has a dog called Nigger. Would you, for example, call your dog cu*t? It's the usage of the word not the word itself that is offensive.
In short, we have assigned a power to words over ourselves which we are able to diffuse just by choosing not to be offended. This is not to say that I condone in any way what Ron has done but it was not BY DEFINITION RACIST.
And to suggest that English verse scots is not in any way Racism flies in the face of the fact that nowadays more and more people in the UK want to be defined as SCOTTISH, WELSH, OR ENGLISH rather than BRITISH. So if someone was to say "You lazy ENGLISH Bastard" (where ENGLISH is the definer of where the abused is from/race) how is that any different to "You lazy PAKI Bastard" where PAKI is the definer of where the abused is from. Yet another prime example of how a word that quite clearly is a describer of where someone is from has been given a power that it just doesn't have if we don't let it.
Understand people. RACISM and all forms of BIGOTRY are a state of mind due to the power words are given due to our (sometimes shameful) history and neuroses and the way in which words are USED rather than what they describe. If someone calls be a "Fat Honkey" I'd say you are right but I don't like your tone.
Shabash!
http://ozrics.co.uk/
It's not the words you use but the intent behind the words that is or is not BIGOTED.
For example:-
If I was to go up to a black woman in the street and say "You are very black" it could be that I mean it as a compliment or as a derogatory statement depending on the inflection of my voice. Because of the history of Bigotry I would expect that as I am white it is likely that offence would be taken but perhaps I am actually attracted to darker skinned women and am registering an interest (be it somewhat clumsily). If I was to say "You are very much a N***er" I would expect it to be taken as a racist comment. The only reason being that the N word has historically only been used by whites as a form of put down.
Example 2 is what I call the "Father Ted Effect". In Father Ted the word Feck is used instead of FU*K but is it any less inflammatory? The simple answer is that it isn't because it doesn't have a history of causing offence yet we all know that it is a direct substitution. It's like the difference between the word Negro and the N word. If Negro had historically been the word used to subjugate the race instead of the N word (which BTW was a word used for centuries as a descriptor for a colour of ink and dye) then that would be offensive. If anyone has seen "The Dambusters" you'll know what I mean. The squadron leader has a dog called Nigger. Would you, for example, call your dog cu*t? It's the usage of the word not the word itself that is offensive.
In short, we have assigned a power to words over ourselves which we are able to diffuse just by choosing not to be offended. This is not to say that I condone in any way what Ron has done but it was not BY DEFINITION RACIST.
And to suggest that English verse scots is not in any way Racism flies in the face of the fact that nowadays more and more people in the UK want to be defined as SCOTTISH, WELSH, OR ENGLISH rather than BRITISH. So if someone was to say "You lazy ENGLISH Bastard" (where ENGLISH is the definer of where the abused is from/race) how is that any different to "You lazy PAKI Bastard" where PAKI is the definer of where the abused is from. Yet another prime example of how a word that quite clearly is a describer of where someone is from has been given a power that it just doesn't have if we don't let it.
Understand people. RACISM and all forms of BIGOTRY are a state of mind due to the power words are given due to our (sometimes shameful) history and neuroses and the way in which words are USED rather than what they describe. If someone calls be a "Fat Honkey" I'd say you are right but I don't like your tone.
Shabash!
http://ozrics.co.uk/
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
Well said Al
Well said Al
G
Gspot
Guest
Re Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
Once again a divided opinion but wouldnt expect any different on such a subject. I dont think big ron is a racist but he made a racist comment, we all have at some point the fact it was someone of his position makes it a big deal!
Now lets get back to the car stuff!
Once again a divided opinion but wouldnt expect any different on such a subject. I dont think big ron is a racist but he made a racist comment, we all have at some point the fact it was someone of his position makes it a big deal!
Now lets get back to the car stuff!
D
Dan
Guest
Re: Re Re This is what Ron Atkinson said
just incase anyone is interested, i've uploaded a clip of what he said, if you're not interested don't wait for it to download (it's only 500k and is embedded in the page)
just incase anyone is interested, i've uploaded a clip of what he said, if you're not interested don't wait for it to download (it's only 500k and is embedded in the page)
C
CARRSY
Guest
JUST A THOUGHT
i just started reading this at work ( naughty , but it is lunchtime) - and as i cannot read as fast as an auctioneer on speed the sound clip started playing on my PC before i realised it was there -i work in a room with people of various ethnic backgrounds . how about a warning re the embedded clip in the title to save any spin-off ron type incidents???
not being funny , honest .
cheers, Dave .
i just started reading this at work ( naughty , but it is lunchtime) - and as i cannot read as fast as an auctioneer on speed the sound clip started playing on my PC before i realised it was there -i work in a room with people of various ethnic backgrounds . how about a warning re the embedded clip in the title to save any spin-off ron type incidents???
not being funny , honest .
cheers, Dave .
OP
OP
patrick
Guest
Re: JUST A THOUGHT
Maybe this will be the last word, but in the newest version of the dambusters film, which is STILL the old one but tweaked a bit, the name of the dog is cut out !!
Maybe this will be the last word, but in the newest version of the dambusters film, which is STILL the old one but tweaked a bit, the name of the dog is cut out !!
M
Martin L
Guest
Re: JUST A THOUGHT
Is their a way i can save the audio clip from this post?
Or can sombody send it to me please?
Cheers Martin L.
Is their a way i can save the audio clip from this post?
Or can sombody send it to me please?
Cheers Martin L.
D
Dan
Guest
Re: JUST A THOUGHT
martin, it's on my webspace...
www.hearn.eclipse.co.uk/ron.mp3
right click save target as (if you put the link in a webpage) will work, if you're having problems email me your email addy and i'll send it you!
martin, it's on my webspace...
www.hearn.eclipse.co.uk/ron.mp3
right click save target as (if you put the link in a webpage) will work, if you're having problems email me your email addy and i'll send it you!