General The new 2021 FIAT Panda serie-4.

[murphyv310]

The 435cc engine produced 24bhp @ 6750 rpm. The 602cc in the 2CV was 29bhp but some say 5750rpm others 6750. The Dyane and Ami 8 were 32bhp @ 5750rpm so the 6750 rpm in some spec sheets seem wrong for the 602cc 2CV.
The top gear gearing is 12.33 mph per 1000rpm.

 

[babbo_umbro]

Ha! snap! I ran the local 2CV Club for a while (called... The Hertfordshire Hilltoppers!). And drove west on the M4 to visit friends and family in the Bath and Bristol area. There was a lovely piece in ‘Car’ magazine many moons ago by the late, great LJK Setright who described the 2CV engine as one of the finest engines ever made.

Many years ago I put the engine from a BMW 700 (coupé like a small Triumph Herald) in the back of a Fiat 500 - absolute little jewel of a flat twin with almost all ball or roller bearings. Heated it up with a couple of Amal Monobloc carbs giving 40-odd HP - and incredible appetite for revs - compared with 18 HP from standard 500. Used to eat Mini Coopers for breakfast.

 

[gar074]

Many years ago I put the engine from a BMW 700 (coupé like a small Triumph Herald) in the back of a Fiat 500 - absolute little jewel of a flat twin with almost all ball or roller bearings. Heated it up with a couple of Amal Monobloc carbs giving 40-odd HP - and incredible appetite for revs - compared with 18 HP from standard 500. Used to eat Mini Coopers for breakfast.

I remember those! The 700 coupé was very rakeish for those days. As you say, Michelotti borrowed heavily from that design when he drew the Herald. He was a great designer. Such a pity he died relatively young, because some of his later stuff was very exciting (I'm currently reading a book about the history of Matra, which features a fantastic gull-winged concept car, the Laser, that Michelotti designed for them in the early 70s).

 

[Brigodee]

Hi.
Don't forget not everyone wants to be a boy racer, that's for the track not the public highway.
When you've come from a 425cc Citroën 2CV you learn a new set of rules that gives you a better understanding on how to make good progress on a low powered vehicle. 70 bhp is a lot more than 12 bhp, the lessons learned in that car means I can make quick progress without taking unnecessary risks.
To me good fuel consumption and a smooth an quiet ride is more relaxing than overtaking on the limit or beating the car next to me off the lights and nearly hitting a dozy pedestrian.
If I'd the money to afford a hybrid Panda I'd jump at it.

Hi, I drove high performance vehicles in the Highlands 50 years ago when their performance could be safely used. All very enjoyable. But now I think that economy and comfort are far more desirable due to the amount of HGV traffic, nearly always driving close together in queues at 57 mph., a speed easily reached in a panda. I expect the new power train will be just fine for modern motoring.
I'm more concerned with the Panda safety issues, but strongly suspect that even if I had the safest small car on the road, an HGV or SUV driven at high speed, whilst texting or similar, would still prove fatal, to me anyway.

 

[murphyv310]

Hi, I drove high performance vehicles in the Highlands 50 years ago when their performance could be safely used. All very enjoyable. But now I think that economy and comfort are far more desirable due to the amount of HGV traffic, nearly always driving close together in queues at 57 mph., a speed easily reached in a panda. I expect the new power train will be just fine for modern motoring.
I'm more concerned with the Panda safety issues, but strongly suspect that even if I had the safest small car on the road, an HGV or SUV driven at high speed, whilst texting or similar, would still prove fatal, to me anyway.

Hi.
One of the reasons the Panda ratings have dropped is the apparent lack of electronic safety systems, in other words the goal posts have been moved.
As an electronics engineer I can assure you that sensors fail, electronics fail and none of these devices will save your life if 40 tons hit you when stationary even in a Range Rover!

 

[Brigodee]

Hi Murphy,

Also a (very) retired electronic engineer, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When younger I flew gliders and preferred map reading skills to GPS use, as maps don't need batteries.

Are the poor safety ratings purely down to the lack of driving aids such as sign post recognition, white line detection etc., or is the Panda structure substandard? I have a strong feeling that many of the aids are fitted as a sales feature to allow the use of "in cab distractions".


There was a fatal crash on the A9 many years ago between a Range Rover and an HGV. The Range Rover was sadly reduced to small pieces.

I love the Panda as it is such a reliable, simple car.

 

[AndyK]

Let's face it, id be happy to give any car on sale today to the kids compared to some of the deathtraps we drove in the 80s and 90s

 

[murphyv310]

Hi Murphy,

Also a (very) retired electronic engineer, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When younger I flew gliders and preferred map reading skills to GPS use, as maps don't need batteries.

Are the poor safety ratings purely down to the lack of driving aids such as sign post recognition, white line detection etc., or is the Panda structure substandard? I have a strong feeling that many of the aids are fitted as a sales feature to allow the use of "in cab distractions".


There was a fatal crash on the A9 many years ago between a Range Rover and an HGV. The Range Rover was sadly reduced to small pieces.

I love the Panda as it is such a reliable, simple car.

The Panda has a strong shell, crumple zones and is as far as I'm concerned safe.
There are accidents you'll never survive from but miracles do occasionally occur.
See this smash in Kenya.
https://www.kenyans.co.ke/news/56191-singer-dennis-mutara-survives-grisly-road-accident-photos

Mind Kenyan cars are RHD like us.

 

[Brigodee]

Good Grief!!

I don't think I'm as devout as Dennis though.

Reassuring that the Panda shell is O.K., thank you.

 

[The Pretender]

RIP TA.

For what it’s worth I’ve had a 500 on loan with that mild hybrid three-cylinder engine, and it would be a brave man driving on on a single carriageway who attempted to overtake anything going faster than a milk float.

EU emissions regs have a lot to answer for.

The 85 TA engine still available in de 4x4 models.

 

[timmycm850]

Hi All

Can i check for those with experience of them.

With the mild hybrid, if you drive them whilst ignoring the prompts to regen/charge, will you only be driving with the 70hp(minus boost) ie 60hp less the new tightness losses until its worn in.

So it may be very important to use the hybrid boosts system.


Tim

 

[The Pretender]

I like the new BLUE CERAMICO uni colour.

 

[valley500]

I see the new models are on the Fiat configurator now. Disappointed you can't order the basic Panda 'Life' with the roof rails even as an option. I think they really add to the look. But presumably you can fit them as an after market thingy. Anyone know? Thanks.

 

[The Pretender]

I see the new models are on the Fiat configurator now. Disappointed you can't order the basic Panda 'Life' with the roof rails even as an option. I think they really add to the look. But presumably you can fit them as an after market thingy. Anyone know? Thanks.

Yep, you can order them at the FIAT dealer and they are easy to install.

 

[The Pretender]

Rumor has it, that the 2022 Panda will get the 1.0ltr T3 GSE-Firefly engine with 120 hp and 190 Nm, and even could get a 48v MHEV system.
Also a exterior restyle is mentioned again.
Till now they're was not really a restyle on the Panda's, more a reshuffle of existing parts, like 4x4 body parts used on more models.
It's not clear under what "Banner" this 120 hp 3T engine will be introduced in the Panda.
Rumor has it, it could simply be as Panda Sport or as Abarth Panda.
Apparently the Panda typ 319 production would stop somewhere in 2023.

 

[Marcus Daly]

Bad news for fans of Tuscany Green (the best colour for the Panda 4x4, IMO), it’s apparently been dropped.

 

[A3jeroen]

I'll hold my breath for the 120Hp... Or would that be foolish?

gr J

 

[The Pretender]

I'll hold my breath for the 120Hp... Or would that be foolish?

gr J

The 2021 "Panda 4x4 Wild" still use the old TwinAir turbo engine.
Production has stopped and they are using the last engines in the Panda 4x4.
After that there are 2 choices, no more Panda 4x4 or introduce the 3 cylinder turbo engine, for the 4x4 and Sport.
Because the 70 hp Hybrid engine is not suited for 4x4 use, not enough power and torque, especially taken in mind the extra power-loss in the 4x4 drivetrain.
Maybe they will use a de-tuned 1.0ltr T3 version with for example 100 hp and 170 Nm, and maybe with the Mild Hybrid system from the non turbo 3 cylinder engine.

 

[A3jeroen]

De-tuned can easily be tuned back. And maybe a bit further.

...dreams of 150 horses in one Panda...

gr J

 

[The Panda Nut]

I'll hold my breath for the 120Hp... Or would that be foolish?

gr J

Yep. Don.t hold your breath. Bet it takes 5 years for the next Panda 4x4 so c 2028 if ever bearing in mind the drive to electric power.