Probably not. You could look at Kent, Piper, Cat, Swiatek and all the others. But any really lumpy cam is going to play havoc with a stock MPI ecu and a plenum type inlet manifold. And remember, Euro 3 (or is it 4) is much stricter on emissions.
Tuning The 100 bhp 1.1
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Tuning The 100 bhp 1.1
Probably not. You could look at Kent, Piper, Cat, Swiatek and all the others. But any really lumpy cam is going to play havoc with a stock MPI ecu and a plenum type inlet manifold. And remember, Euro 3 (or is it 4) is much stricter on emissions.
IIRC there's a Brazilian 999 16v FIRE Engine.
I was thinking more classic panda 999 bottom end with forged pistons and rods, with some flowed 8v mpi head on it and full aftermarket management... But i am a bit of an 8v fanboy lol.
I toy with the idea of a sleeved 1108cc block to take it down to 999cc then supercharge it (turbos are just a bit meh-imo) same block same class, nice hillclimb toy.
I could make a 1.1 hit 100bhp easily n/a but would not be appropriate for road,.
I could make a 1.1 hit 100bhp easily n/a but would not be appropriate for road,.
but the whole point of the panda 999 is that the bore is wider than the stroke, sleeving a 1108 would result in making much longer stroke than bore and thus lower rev limits. You could use the the 999 crank in the 1108 and have a overquare engine or go completely mental and use the 750 panda crank in a 1108. You would prob need to deck the block to do so but it result would prob be well amusing.
This is the block we have purchased:-
looking forward to getting the best results possible out of it!
1242 60 spi Engine
Water pump and thermostat
Timing belt crank pulley and timing belt tensioner
New Federal Mogul piston rings fitted
New stainless fasteners fitted
Valves de-coked and relapped, Piston de-coked and thoroughlty cleaned
Im looking at putting the 1.1head on it with a 866 cam, is that the best cam for the job?
and then looking at hunting down a larger throttle body, and a decent 4-2-1 manifold and a decent induction kit!
looking forward to getting the best results possible out of it!
1242 60 spi Engine
Water pump and thermostat
Timing belt crank pulley and timing belt tensioner
New Federal Mogul piston rings fitted
New stainless fasteners fitted
Valves de-coked and relapped, Piston de-coked and thoroughlty cleaned
Im looking at putting the 1.1head on it with a 866 cam, is that the best cam for the job?
and then looking at hunting down a larger throttle body, and a decent 4-2-1 manifold and a decent induction kit!
Hang on. what car, what ECU, etc?
The 866 cam is a nice fastish road cam. By no -- real -- stretch of the imagination is it a performance cam, but it is better than the stock Cinq/Sei 1108 cam.
In the P75 (big throttle body, good exhaust manifold, allegedly bigger valves, mapping to suit) it gave 75bhp.
I'd not knock it -- in a Cento the 1242 8v makes for a pretty quick car -- it is the engine the Sportings should have had from new -- but 100bhp it won't give.
The 866 cam is a nice fastish road cam. By no -- real -- stretch of the imagination is it a performance cam, but it is better than the stock Cinq/Sei 1108 cam.
In the P75 (big throttle body, good exhaust manifold, allegedly bigger valves, mapping to suit) it gave 75bhp.
I'd not knock it -- in a Cento the 1242 8v makes for a pretty quick car -- it is the engine the Sportings should have had from new -- but 100bhp it won't give.
If using the Sei MPI ECU, make sure that the block has the lug for the knock sensor -- some P60s seem to have it (and all Mk2s do), some don't.
Yeah this doesnt have the knock sensor whats the best way around this? someone said araldyte it on lol?
Ive got all the standard loom from the 1.1 seicento MPI (4 injectors), and the standard ECU!
i can use a 40mm throttle body with this cant I from a Mk1 Punto?
Ive got all the standard loom from the 1.1 seicento MPI (4 injectors), and the standard ECU!
i can use a 40mm throttle body with this cant I from a Mk1 Punto?
It's just a "sort of" microphone. The ECU will probably have a hissy fir if it's not there. You might find you can use the extra bolt hole for the Punto alternator bracket. Alternatively find a bolt with the right thread, glue that on.
No. And no Mk1 Punto ever came with a 40mm TB. P75 has a 38. Best bet, though, is a TB from a 1.2 16v or maybe a Bravo/Brava. At least the connectors are the same. Try and get the whole inlet manifold, as you'll need to cut the mounting flange off and glue it to the MPI one.
I don't want to beat you up about this, but unless you can get someone to map the MPI ECU (difficult) you're going to have to look to either a piggy back or a stand alone.
Are you going MPI? If so best to get a P75 head loom and ecu !
There is nothing to gain with the seicento mpi stuff.
P.S, for all the money you will spend getting all that stuff, just stick with SPI and use current head or the head that came with the P60 engine! Really not worth the extra money.
Ming
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am I right in saying i can run the P60 block with the 1.1head, and not have to change the ecu or loom?
and also i could surely bolt on a bigger throttle body and use the 866 cam re shimmed? or will this pay HAVOC with the ECU
ive been reading thread about throttle bodies 38-40mm, just wondered if i could use a version of this?
cheers
and also i could surely bolt on a bigger throttle body and use the 866 cam re shimmed? or will this pay HAVOC with the ECU
ive been reading thread about throttle bodies 38-40mm, just wondered if i could use a version of this?
cheers
What i was playing to do was the following?
p60 block that ive picked up freshly built.
1.1 seicento head with a 866 cam
40mm throttle body.
is this not achievable to run of the seicento loom? and if not what are the reasons?
cheers
p60 block that ive picked up freshly built.
1.1 seicento head with a 866 cam
40mm throttle body.
is this not achievable to run of the seicento loom? and if not what are the reasons?
cheers
If your current car is a SPI, then it is fine to use your current loom with ecu. Unless i have missed something!
Ming
ah my bad yes, you head and ecu and loom will with the block.
The biggest TB you can fit to the MPI plastic intake manifold is 39mm without removing any plastic. A 40mm would be pretty much the largest you can use and still use the standard seal.
You can fit GP 1.2 8v 5 hole spray pattern injectors for more fuel but I've no idea on the flow rates. The Punto 60 head will need major porting/Gas flowing to be able to benefit from any/all other component changes with regard to the sucking cycle.
The 866 cam is good for what it does, but It's not going to come close to a 280 C&B.
TBH. MPI cars are not the best for tuning with what is available,
The best 1.1/1.2 8v version is a complete Punto 75 injection setup including the head and factory matched ECU but there is a lot of work involved.
If you don't fit the knock sensor correctly, you may as well not fit it. It has to be fitted/torqued up correctly so as to pick up the correct frequency it's tuned for.
You can fit GP 1.2 8v 5 hole spray pattern injectors for more fuel but I've no idea on the flow rates. The Punto 60 head will need major porting/Gas flowing to be able to benefit from any/all other component changes with regard to the sucking cycle.
The 866 cam is good for what it does, but It's not going to come close to a 280 C&B.
TBH. MPI cars are not the best for tuning with what is available,
The best 1.1/1.2 8v version is a complete Punto 75 injection setup including the head and factory matched ECU but there is a lot of work involved.
If you don't fit the knock sensor correctly, you may as well not fit it. It has to be fitted/torqued up correctly so as to pick up the correct frequency it's tuned for.
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No, you are missing the point. Everything I post is in relation to racing/hillclimbs or motorsport!
The 999cc engine was never in the cinquecento, therefore the second you put it in the engine bay your in sports libre with the single seaters. In order to stay in the road going classes, you need to use the 1108cc block or the 899cc, anything else and your in with single seaters and kit cars.
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ah getcha... but why would you not just use the 1108 in that case?? Can't say i have ever done any type of motorsport so not up on any regs really. Would you be able to use a P75 mpi head on the 1108?
I've been reading the msa blue book recently as hill climbing is something that I'm planning on getting into. As said The block has to stay the same as was in from the factory. If you used a 1.1 then it'll have to stay na as forced induction is subject to a 30% capacity increase. Id suspect reducing the capacity and supercharging would lead to a far more driveable and competitive car. you can overbore the 1.1 and fit 1.2 pistons if wanted. Head changes depends on class if your in production (basically only very few changes allowed to dampers,bushes,small changes to engine etc) then I don't think you can use it as has to stay with the original head that left the factory. If in modified production (a lot more free Perspex windows,no rear seats, allowed to change lots of stuff) then yep you can the event I went to recently there was a nova there in modified production class running the standard block which would have been 8v with a 16v head on it. So you could have a 1.1 sleeved to 999cc with a 16v head (if it'll work) supercharged would hopefully be competitive against the classic minis which are all overbored 1275 up to 1380 and are quite quick.
