Terrorist attack today in London

[dave]

Northern Ireland is over. Radical christians are still promoting "queer bashing" though
this

causes this

 

[ChrisUK]

I'm still yet to know why that has anything to do with the Woolwich incident...

 

[dave]

I'm still yet to know why that has anything to do with the Woolwich incident...

it dont it has to do with the post before it claiming no one blames christians for the **** they cause, normally i cant see the crap he posts but i was bored so clicked the view post button. all religions have their nutters or radicals, no one can claim that the religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Northern Ireland is over.

Really? Perhaps you need to let mi5 know

People are still being killed there.

The IRA never went away they just got political power, one day you're a terrorist the next you're in charge.

 

[GrandeGuy]

lol this thread is nicely getting out of hand

 

[GrandeGuy]

It's all based on lack of knowledge these people do silly things because they dont actually know the underpinnings,
In iraq about 70% of them are actually Muslim,
The quran is actually all about peace and not harming other people,
so i don't know why they act this way and preach the quran :shrug:

 

[GrandeGuy]

I can't understand why people insist on arguing/fighting over religion, they all ring the same person just use different telephones :shrug:

 

[dave]

The quran is actually all about peace and not harming other people,

so are most religious books, that don't stop people twisting the meanings within them to meet their own ideas

 

[pooroldcodger]

It wasn't 'Al-Qaeda's radical Muslims' it was Al-Qaeda although not explicit you do like to keep making tenuous links that 'Muslims' are to blame, and in doing so you're insulting many millions of peaceful people around the world.

I don't see you blaming Christians for Northern Ireland? irrelevant of religion these are groups hell bent on creating instability and they do it in the name of religion, and they do it because it gives them power.

Before you get on any sort of soap box regarding 'gross insults'

In march a completely innocent 16 year old girl was stabbed to death in broad daylight on a bus on her way to school, where was your thread for her, where was your outrage, the rights and wrongs? The only reason that you're still banging on about this is it plays up to your beliefs, I mean, what possible political point can be made from the death of a 16year old girl stabbed by a lunatic. But give you a soldier 'hacked' to death by a lunatic who claimed it in the name of Islam?
Would you be so incensed if it was in the name of space aliens or that his breakfast told him to do it?

This brave soldier had served and fought for this country, this is apparently the reason for his murder, so by that analogy he 'died as a result of fighting an enemy'

The poor girl that was stabbed on her way to school was desperately sad and I really felt for her family and friends, but this was clearly an isolated incident carried out (I am sure we will eventually learn) by a mentally disturbed person who had either not taken his medication, or had taken some other drugs. The girl was probably singled out because she was pretty and white.
The murdering in Woolwich was different because two people (at least) were involved. It was pre-meditated and the victim was chosen because he was a soldier, and it was seen as some form of revenge. So it had, in the eyes of the murderers some form of justification. This is murder and treason.
The resaon I am not "blaming Christians for Northern Ireland" is that the whole subject of this thread is a terrorist attack in London". That is the London down south, not Londonderry Northern Ireland.
And lastly, it is hardly a tenuous link to make between Al Quaeda and muslims is it? At no point have I said that all muslims are terrorists, but it does seem to be true at this point that the majority of terrorism is in the name of Islam.
Not all terrorism I admit, but most.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Further reply:

It wasn't 'Al-Qaeda's radical Muslims' it was Al-Qaeda
And Al Qaeda are not Muslim? And there was me thinking they were.

I don't see you blaming Christians for Northern Ireland? irrelevant of religion these are groups hell bent on creating instability and they do it in the name of religion, and they do it because it gives them power.
I agree. It is like a gang mentality in the name of religion. But whether you like it or not, the common link in this particular case (not Northern Ireland) is Islamism.

Before you get on any sort of soap box regarding 'gross insults'

But give you a soldier 'hacked' to death by a lunatic who claimed it in the name of Islam?
Would you be so incensed if it was in the name of space aliens or that his breakfast told him to do it?

Let me put this another way that you might understand.
If the soldier had been killed by a tree falling on his head, it would have had the same result - i.e he would still be dead. But the tree would have been blameless and he would have been very unlucky.
If he had been murdered by a mugger, then the same would apply, if it was a random mugging. But this was not random. I would not be so incensed if he had been murdered in the name of space aliens because they don't exist, therefore it would have to be an isolated incident carried out by a crackpot.

If you can't understand the difference then I would question your own judgement if I were you.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I would not be so incensed if he had been murdered in the name of space aliens because they don't exist, therefore it would have to be an isolated incident carried out by a crackpot.

The attack on that young girl was pre-meditated, i'm sure the killer felt he had some sort of justification even if he did suffer from a mental illness.

in respect to "If you can't understand the difference then I would question your own judgement" it was a rhetorical question but you've made point exactly.
You could argue this is an isolated incident carried out by a couple of crackpots. condemned by the islamic community. completely independent of any particular group. but you clearly have an anti-islamic stance, this hasn't been about Al-Qaeda, they were operating independently by all accounts, so they are a 'Muslim' not a crackpot or lunatic (which they clearly are to have done what they did) which is why you're still pushing the point.

As I said before it serves your beliefs, which by all accounts seem to be inline with a certain others ideas of suppressing freedom of speech and oppression of a group who carry a certain religious belief, otherwise what else is there left to discuss other than it being a both horrible and tragic event

 

[pooroldcodger]

So you would like to go on record and say that this event was nothing to do with religion. These were just two crazy guys who decided to mow down and hack up an off-duty soldier?

 

[dave]

if there were no religions this and loads of other tragic events would have never happened

 

[pooroldcodger]

I agree with you Dave.

 

[scout]

Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people

 

[pooroldcodger]

Can't disagree with that. Thankfully most people's "Gods" prevent them from killing people. But not all.

 

[ChrisUK]

 

[PuntoHowTo]

So you would like to go on record and say that this event was nothing to do with religion. These were just two crazy guys who decided to mow down and hack up an off-duty soldier?

This was an attack of retribution based on religious ideals, there are serving Muslims in the British army, how did they ensure the person they were only attacking a non Muslim soldier? Did you know? Had it been a Muslim soldier they attacked would we be calling it a religious attack?

Going by everything else you've written so far I could say you want it on record that you say all Muslims are war mongerers and terrorists, but this simply isn't true there maybe some, as there are British people who want to spread hate and violence.

There are elements in this attack which are intrinsically linked with a set of distorted and exagerated religious ideas, but there is also madness and insanity of two blokes who would murder in the street in broad daylight then wait for the police only then to attack the police, clearly in a 'suicide by cop' (as mentioned earlier in this thread) are you suggesting these two men were completely of sound mind?

 

[pooroldcodger]

Sorry, I give up. You have worn me down with your ability to read one thing and then say it means something else. Where exactly have I said that all muslims are war mongerers and terrorists? Please tell me that.
First you said that this was nothing to do with religion. Then it is retribution based on religious ideals.
You should be a politician, you have all the attributes already.I really hope they don't let you loose with anything sharp at work.

 

[pooroldcodger]

I withdraw the last sentence. I shouldn't have said that. But I resent the deliberate misrepresentation of what I have written. I am not sure whether this is deliberate or not, but I will let Mr Andy argue with himself from now on. He seems more than capable of that.