Technical Tangled web of lies

[AsdaPricey]

Look at this bad boy - I’ve been working through the gnarly bits of our IH PVC and have moved to this terrible tangled web - whilst removing the defunct Laserline alarm with central locking interface, I uncovered main harness wires cut and bridges made with soldered resistors - I’m assuming this was to prevent canbus errors??
It looks like the Soldering Seagul has been flying past ….

I could do with a wiring diagram so I can double check what I am rejoining - please can some point me in the direction of one ? - harness to dash fuse box, Ducato X250 2008

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

There's no one single wiring diagram. They are separated, one per system. Like the instrument panel has one diagram. The immobilizer has another one. Etc.

You have to get to the systems that are connected to this fusebox. And check diagram by diagram. I'd start by the alarm system one, perhaps the butcher that was installing the alarm in your van got inspired by it. Be sure to look for the model (x250), engine and body type, too (cab, etc, as the diagrams differs sometimes, too).

Good luck with the repair

 

[AsdaPricey]

@the green vanper
Thank you very much. That is extremely helpful.

The alarm was aftermarket and fortunately the person fitting it had not utilised it’s immobiliser function, but did use the central locking function which a cursory visual search at the drivers door switch confirms wiring colours appear there too - what’s confusing is why they cut two wires then bridged them ? - the resistors I can guess to be to fool the canbus system.

I’ve found the diagram for the drivers door lock panel switch but when I get to that final component, eLearn asks for a user ID and password - most likely due to it being a security item - so it will be a good old fashioned continuity test with meter and probe.

 

[deejays]

Look at this bad boy - I’ve been working through the gnarly bits of our IH PVC and have moved to this terrible tangled web - whilst removing the defunct Laserline alarm with central locking interface, I uncovered main harness wires cut and bridges made with soldered resistors - I’m assuming this was to prevent canbus errors??
It looks like the Soldering Seagul has been flying past ….

I could do with a wiring diagram so I can double check what I am rejoining - please can some point me in the direction of one ? - harness to dash fuse box, Ducato X250 2008
View attachment 456139

I see semiconductor diodes, not resistors. It is possible they were wired in as isolating diodes. You need to trace all the associated wiring and see where it goes. I would assume (yes, dangerous I know) that the butcher would have cut into the original wire in the loom he wanted to connect to, and connected the device wiring with isolating diodes - so some of the wiring connected the diode would be original FIAT, the rest aftermarket install.

 

[AsdaPricey]

@deejays

Isolating diodes would make sense or maybe even bypass diodes?? They’re installed (I use this term lightly) in parallel.

The term Butcher does not do it justice - here is another example….

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

I don't know if these are what you need, central locking schematic from eLearn attached

Do you have the letter codes for wire colours ? If not I can list them.

Nearly all Fiat original wires have a base colour and stripe. Exceptions are black for ground and red for maijor 12 volt supplies.

Try to match colours and wire diameters !

 

[AsdaPricey]

@Anthony489

Morning.

Brilliant stuff. Thank you!

No, I don’t have colour table, so if you have please can I have it- it will save me time recording each one.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi again

Fiat Wiring Colour Codes:

A (Azzuro) Light Blue
B (Bianco) White
C Orange
G (Giallo) Yellow
H Grey
L Dark Blue
M (Marrone) Brown
N (Nero) Black
R (Rossa) Red
S Pink
V (Verde) Green
Z Violet

If I recall correctly, when there are two letters the first is the base colour and the second is the tracer

Electrical components all have a code, for example B002. These seem to have been fairly consistent over the years, and eLearn or internet search will tell you what they all mean. Two of the most important are B001 which is the under bonnet Junction Box/Fuse Box/Relay Box and B002 which is the under dashboard Junction Box/Fuse Box

Good luck !

 

[Communicator]

My IH PVC dates from 2006. I have never been happy with the installation of the Laserline Alarm system. It is quite possible that it is the work of the same installer Dennis xxxxxxxx, whose name appears on the installation certificate. Installation defects included twisted wire connections, inncorrectly sized crimps, wires draped under the dash, and a failure to use a proper crimping tool. A wire dropped out of a crimp on the added blade fuseholder. For the installers convenience the main alarm unit is mounted close to the RHS headlight. This is just where you need to slide the starter battery out when removing. The alarm unit has to be unbolted when removing the battery.

I think that @Anthony489 , has been reading my previously posted colour chart, which I am quite happy to note. I am attaching my original pdf version, which is designed to be printed on an A5 sheet. I have a laminated copy, which is used less as I remember more.

I suspect that the diodes used in the installation are blocking diodes, to allow the door switches to be used for two functions withoud backfeeding. On my PVC, the door open indicator light does not illuminate. I suspect that this is due to the wiring being diverted to the Laserline Alarm. I have actually considered adding similar blocking diodes, to restore the facility.

 

[AsdaPricey]

My IH PVC dates from 2006. I have never been happy with the installation of the Laserline Alarm system. It is quite possible that it is the work of the same installer Dennis xxxxxxxx, whose name appears on the installation certificate. Installation defects included twisted wire connections, inncorrectly sized crimps, wires draped under the dash, and a failure to use a proper crimping tool. A wire dropped out of a crimp on the added blade fuseholder. For the installers convenience the main alarm unit is mounted close to the RHS headlight. This is just where you need to slide the starter battery out when removing. The alarm unit has to be unbolted when removing the battery.

I think that @Anthony489 , has been reading my previously posted colour chart, which I am quite happy to note. I am attaching my original pdf version, which is designed to be printed on an A5 sheet. I have a laminated copy, which is used less as I remember more.

I suspect that the diodes used in the installation are blocking diodes, to allow the door switches to be used for two functions withoud backfeeding. On my PVC, the door open indicator light does not illuminate. I suspect that this is due to the wiring being diverted to the Laserline Alarm. I have actually considered adding similar blocking diodes, to restore the facility.

Thank you @Communicator for the colour chart - I’d be lost without it.

I’ve got to say that the IH build quality is not what I had expected - Ergonomics and visuals are good but under the surface not so. Fur coat and no knickers comes to mind.
That said mine has been in the hands of four other owners - some of the adaptations are quite mind boggling including twisting 240v wires together and covering with duct tape.

The alarm is now in a box destined for scrap unless anyone needs a part to rejuvenate their own system.
I’m looking into a wireless alarm system for the future
I think you are probably on the money re the fitter of the Laserline alarm - there were even cables wound round the gear change linkages to prevent them draping down!

I will update how I get on with the rewire.

 

[NavNie]

Hello AsdaPricey,

use this Link to select the necessery Wiring Diagramm and Backround Information: Electrical equipment > 1 ELECTRICAL FUNCTIONS

Regards Klaus

 

[AsdaPricey]

Hello

With the help of the mighty forum users, I have now removed the Laserline.
Instead of what can be seen in the first picture, it is now what is found in the 2nd image.

Notably the interior lights work correctly, the Fiat immobiliser light now functions as it should, the left hand speaker is no longer defunct and the extra earths I’ve added in the battery tray and engine bay have changed its starting for the better.

Thank you to all who provided information to assist.

 

[Anthony489]

Well done for getting this sorted !

Some of my time I inhabit the world of classic cars. It never ceases to amaze me that owners will spend hours and £££ on the parts you can see, but under the bonnet (and dashboard) is an unsightly mass of spaghetti wiring and insulation tape. It's not as if its outrageously expensive or difficult to do it properly, the parts are all readily available.

 

[AsdaPricey]

@Anthony489
Thank you.

You’re on the money with the brush it under the carpet crew.
Ironically most of that mess was courtesy of so called professionals when the van was first converted.

I’ve only just taken this on as a project, bought from a well known Motorhome & Caravan dealer in the South West of England.
I went in with my eyes wide open - it was a deal that suited both parties - Bought some distance away from home, so unless there is something major I’ll resolve any issues myself

Yet even from a well thought of company with many returning customers, there has been shoddy workmanship at the dealers hands.
If you look carefully, to the right of the dashboard Allen bolt you can see Scuff/gouge marks - this is where a hole was drilled in the door A pillar l catching the plastics as this happened, because they needed to route a fresh cable for the r/h door speaker due to a break in the original that is within the depths of the dash - with the speaker out there is immediate access to the door to pillar rubber trunking gaiter… armed with a length of coat hanger wire it took me no more than ten minutes to guide the new cable to the stereo.
The cable they had put in was even wrapped around the gear linkages - just why oh why.
That’s not the end of it but no doubt I’ll get to it all in the end….and I will have a vehicle we can trust.