Suspension improvements discussion

[Ffoxy]

OK so we all talk lowering etc, and maybe FIAT build to a price...

So... if I wanted to improve my GPS suspension, what should I really do?

Is it spring rates and damper quality that is the issue (and hence cost)

Or is it geometry / bushes / other components?

Would a re-bushing with quality bushes, maybe some gas filled adjustable dampers and quality springs make the GP ride and handle better, less crashing over bumps, less wallow and lean? More supple compliant ride with better handling we should be looking for, especially in the case of the 1.9 which is low enough IMO.

What do the Forum members think or know from experience?

 

[Ffoxy]

By the way, my suspension is fine by me as it is, just thinking long term, for when I need replace the standard kit.

And also for those who are not happy with the way their GP sits, runs and floats!

 

[Liam]

Set of Eibach springs will sort you out, best compromise over comfort and performance.

Liam

 

[jug]

lowering springs and uprated gas shocks is all you need. realistically you dont need adjustable coil overs or poly bushes.

 

[Ffoxy]

Yea I have seen the Eibach solution thanks Liam, I am thinking radically of the springs and dampers being treated as a single unit along with the bushes controlling the moving bits, there HAS to be something that would improve the whole handling experience, I get sick of motoring journo's extolling the handling virtues of the Beemer Minis etc, surely its a cost thing and not rocket science? I know FIAT will have compromised function / cost / longevity etc. It used to be all the rage to fit Koni or Spax adjustables at the rear of cars, the front struts are a different thing of course, and with the 1.9 GPS there is that huge heavy great JTD lump to carry.

 

[Ffoxy]

lowering springs and uprated gas shocks is all you need. realistically you dont need adjustable coil overs or poly bushes.

Does the 1.9 benefit from lowering Jug? It looks low enough for me. I know its a centre of gravity thing that, but dont the springs and dampers control that, and isnt that most likely where the cost compromise will be felt?

Thinking about the initial bang when a pothole is hit, is it the spring that transmits that? Or the bushes... or both? Would a softer more progressive upgraded spring relieve that along with some good gas damping?

I seriously want to keep this motor and upgrade it as I go, not race or chav it up, just make it .... nicer to drive on our sh*te roads.

 

[Ffoxy]

I guess a consensus may be that as the GP body is so rigid and shod with low profiles we cant expect much better, not convinced but I will listen to any informed source guys, any suspension genii out there?

Maybe this could be picked up by peeps like Angel tuning and co, along with a clutch / brakes upgrade? (especially for the lucky few who get to run around the racetracks in their daily tools lol!)

 

[jug]

the bang when you hit a pothole is mostly due to the tyre profile, the amount of movement in the car when that happens (called bound and rebound) is solely controlled by the damper.

you have a bit of a problem, if you reduce body roll with lowering springs and uprated shocks then you make the ride firmer which will improve handling as you want, but it will make rough surfaces and potholes even worse.

you want 2 things that do not go hand in hand, every car setup is a compromsie between comfort and handling, some cars lean more towards comfort, other more towards handling. you cant be set up for both unfortunately.

there are several reasons why i think 50profile is the minimum for a road use tyre, one of those reasons is that our roads are littered with potholes and crap surfaces so you need the tyre to have some cushioning effect to absorb shock and impact. if you have the right profile tyres you can then have stiffer lower suspension without sacrificing your ride quality. having rock hard very low suspension and very low profile tyres on huge alloys is stupid unless your car is for ornamental use only.

imo the best setup for most cars is slighly lowered (30-40mm) and standard lenght gas shocks (e.g. kyb excel-g) and 50 profile tyres.

 

[Ffoxy]

the bang when you hit a pothole is mostly due to the tyre profile, the amount of movement in the car when that happens (called bound and rebound) is solely controlled by the damper.

you have a bit of a problem, if you reduce body roll with lowering springs and uprated shocks then you make the ride firmer which will improve handling as you want, but it will make rough surfaces and potholes even worse.

you want 2 things that do not go hand in hand, every car setup is a compromsie between comfort and handling, some cars lean more towards comfort, other more towards handling. you cant be set up for both unfortunately.

there are several reasons why i think 50profile is the minimum for a road use tyre, one of those reasons is that our roads are littered with potholes and crap surfaces so you need the tyre to have some cushioning effect to absord shock and impact. if you have the right profile tyres you can then have stiffer lower suspension without sacrificing your ride quality. having rock hard very low suspension and very low profile tyres on huge alloys is stupid unless your car is for ornamental use only.

Cool thanks Jug, I dont want the car any lower though, standard height is fine. Just wondered if anyone had tried and succeeded in that scenario. Looks like Eibachs and gas dampers at the rear when the time comes then, maybe have a look around at fron strut super dooper mods in the meantime

 

[jug]

try an upper strut brace on the front

 

[PNL]

Quite often overlooked is the fact that when you lower a car you also change the geometary and camber of the front wheels and anything lower that 30/35mm can affect the reliability if the drive train as extra stress is placed on the drive shafts etc..and as fiat dont actually have any system to compensate on their suspension set ups [struts] you may well need to look at this if your tyres start to ware on the inside/outside of the tread ..the solution to this is to get some camber bolts fitted and that will sort the problem for you ..can give you a link if you do decide to go lower than 30/35mm..

 

[Ffoxy]

Quite often overlooked is the fact that when you lower a car you also change the geometary and camber of the front wheels and anything lower that 30/35mm can affect the reliability if the drive train as extra stress is placed on the drive shafts etc..and as fiat dont actually have any system to compensate on their suspension set ups [struts] you may well need to look at this if your tyres start to ware on the inside/outside of the tread ..the solution to this is to get some camber bolts fitted and that will sort the problem for you ..can give you a link if you do decide to go lower than 30/35mm..

I dont wana lower PNL thanks bud... just asking about whether the ride might be better with quality components as and when required due to wear. Remebering the Koni / Spax adjustables, gas struts / front struts, poly bushes etc.

 

[PNL]

OK well I will tell you that I know of one stilo owner that's going back to original springs on his car ..he hasn't been impressed one bit by the spring kit he fitted with ragards to ride or handling..but to also answer your question I would also say that using a good set of gas shocks both front and back will see an improvement to ride and handling of your car ..try Gaz shocks ..made in the UK and take some beating.. polly bushes will harden the ride as they dont give as OEM ones do

 

[Ffoxy]

Cool thanx PNL

 

[PNL]

Cool thanx PNL

No problem mate and just to say for the small out lay of a strut brace they will improve the feel of the steering on your car and make it feel a lot more positive ..the one on the stilo [omp] was crap and I had to resort to a custom one built by me ..

 

[Ffoxy]

Excellent bit of craftsmanship that strut-brace mate! I though the GP was quite rigid anyway? I dont drive fast (not a lot anyway lol) just wanting to get rid of the crashiness that seems to cheapen the GP experience for passengers.

Cheers...

 

[Mister T]

It's best not to bother too much about what car critics think, most of their reviews tend to be predictable. It's more important that you work out what you are looking for in your car and then make adjustments according to what you are trying to achieve. Whether this is performance, comfort, or whatever, it is up to you, depending on yor own circumstances.

It's better to enjoy your own car as you like, it rather than trying to emulate the latest journalistic trend. I enjoy my MK2 Punto for anumber of reasons that suit me and that's what matters!