General Sump plug..

[Phils panda]

hi everyone i done a inspection today underneth to check the state of the sump plug ready for service.I found the plug to be shallow deth and soft metal meaning single use only.

 

[murphyv310]

That needs a 6 sided socket, ideally one that is flat with no bevel that looses a couple of mm. Is that a TA?

 

[Phils panda]

Hi thanks for the replie yes indeed a TA 61 plate lounge.So i can buy a fiat spec socket?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Flat driver sockets look like a hexagon and the driver force is exerted on all six of the flats of the nut by all 6 of the flats of the socket. Get one from Halfords. Usual sockets have multiple possible positions for you to easily slip the socket onto the nut, but only grip the nut on the corners. Over time sockets wear and it is easy to wreck nuts as the sockets tend to turn the corners if a lot of force is used. I wondered why all my sockets seemed to slip so easily, and after close inspection have thrown 9/10 away as they were worn out. My initial problem was with the much used 10mm socket in my 1/4 in drive set. I now have a top quality flat drive socket set bought off ebay cheap. The ratchet did not work properly. Its amazing what a wire brush can do though. With a drop of oil and a clean they work as they should and that saved me around £100!

 

[murphyv310]

More worrying is the bolt head is shallow, a lot of sockets are slightly bevelled so there wont be much to grip the nut. Might be an idea to grind a new socket so the full amount of the hexagon is gripping the bolt head.
If it is a taper plug 10-12ft/lb is all that is needed, no rumping up the bolt with yer foot laddie!!!

 

[Phils panda]

Hi trevor my intial thought was to match it with another nut that was deeper..why make it so shallow...

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Or use a Pela pump.
I've changed oils for years now without grubbing about under a car. The Pela does the oil draining for me. Can't remember when I last undid a sump nut!

 

[murphyv310]

You still have to go underneath and get a drain pan to do the filter. Pela pumps are ok but do they scavenge the bottom of the sump properly?

 

[Sweetsixteen]

You still have to go underneath and get a drain pan to do the filter. Pela pumps are ok but do they scavenge the bottom of the sump properly?

I can only speak from personal use. I run two cars, and for several years have only changed oil - always with filter at the same time - using a Pela. One car is now almost on 100k miles, and the other is approaching 190k miles. Two previous cars, using Pela for oil changes, hit 145k and 135k when I sold them. Never an oil-related problem.

As for grubbing about changing filters - that depends on the engine layout of course - but I've been fortunate because my Panda is a multijet (top mounted filter) and the other makes also had top mounted filters.

Anyone using a Pela once will be sold on the system - but always change the oil when it's hot.

 

[jrkitching]

Pela pumps are ok but do they scavenge the bottom of the sump properly?

One way to find out is to remove the sump plug after you've used one and see what comes out.

I've done the same with the cooling system on models with an expansion tank at the side of the radiator and confirm it's a good way to drain coolant on these cars. Removing the bottom hose afterwards doesn't get anything more out.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

One way to find out is to remove the sump plug after you've used one and see what comes out.

.... Although the acid test is not what may come out if the sump plug is removed after using a Pela - it's what may be left in. Sludge, for example.

The only way to really check on the effectiveness of a sump scavenge pump is to drop the sump after several pumped oil changes.

I have never done this, but my oil quality when regularly checking using the dipstick is always good - suggesting that the scavenge method is thorough.

In America particularly, and often in the UK, dealers routinely change oil by this method rather than removing a sump plug. The secret to a thorough oil change is to use the pump immediately after a run, when the oil is hot.

On recent Mercedes models, the sump is made of plastic, and will not stand repeated plug removal/replacement without damage, unless the mechanic is very sympathetic to the material.

 

[jrkitching]

.... Although the acid test is not what may come out if the sump plug is removed after using a Pela - it's what may be left in. Sludge, for example.

If a Pela can't suck it out, it's unlikely removing the drain plug will get it out either. Modern synthetic detergent oils don't generally form sludge anyhow.

In days past, sump plugs were magnetic & often had a few bits of ferrous debris clinging to them. There's no way of dealing with that short of removing the plug, but that doesn't apply here.

 

[Slowco]

Ive just done my second oil change on our twinair 4x4, and was cursing the same stupid plug. which brought me here!

plus on the 4x4 there is the skid plate to deal with, which i actually just leave in place and let the oil drain through. Its not worth the wrestling getting that heavy thing off, and it is possible to leave it in place.

I do most of my mechanicking on our old vw van, which is so much easier to work on- everything is bigger, and higher up!

BUT, it made me think id definitely look for a better plug the next time i do the job. Once with a proper deeper hex head on, like this-


ebay item 334875503488, for example.

 

[Panda IIs]

Ive just done my second oil change on our twinair 4x4, and was cursing the same stupid plug. which brought me here!

plus on the 4x4 there is the skid plate to deal with, which i actually just leave in place and let the oil drain through. Its not worth the wrestling getting that heavy thing off, and it is possible to leave it in place.

I do most of my mechanicking on our old vw van, which is so much easier to work on- everything is bigger, and higher up!

BUT, it made me think id definitely look for a better plug the next time i do the job. Once with a proper deeper hex head on, like this-


ebay item 334875503488, for example.

View attachment 476914

I would be swapping that washer (hard to tell properly from these images) which looks like plated steel for a copper one, or reuse the old one if you can anneal it. (heat to cherry red and quench in water). This will prevent leaks as it softens the copper so it crushes more easily.

 

[euroben]

I struggled to get mine undone on my TA when changing the oil the first time myself. Mine had corroded a bit on the thread and was well and truly stuck. My local Volvo garage helped me get it off by heating it with a blow torch for a few seconds, then letting it cool and then trying with a 6 sided bit. Now I replace the nut and washer with every oil change (copper washer) and it only costs me a few pounds from AUTODOC where I get my selenia oil. I also don’t torque it very much to do it up- just enough to stop it leaking.

 

[The Panda Nut]

You still have to go underneath and get a drain pan to do the filter. Pela pumps are ok but do they scavenge the bottom of the sump properly?

No!