Technical Stilo Tappets.

[Argonought]

Doesn't look too clean to me but then I can't see any correlation between HG failure and noisy tappets so wouldn't worry too much

Take all 4 plugs out to get a fair idea of what state the engine is in.

Also, keep an eye on the dipstick - does the oil still look cleanish?

This tappet noise; you're quite sure you're not confusing it with pinking (have you actually listened for the noise as Decks has suggested ?)

 

[Deckchair5]

Well that's a relief if you're getting any kind of oil flow to the top end.

A very small trace of condensation like that in the filler cap wouldn't be alarming but I'd keep an eye on it. Depends whether your car is left idle for longish periods

Next job would be to find exactly the source of the noise and an engineer's stethoscope (around £5) is perfect when sourcing noises, especially over the back of the engine. Shouldn't have to remove anything I'd hope but watch yourself near rotating parts. You can pinpoint the noise to within an inch


Can you post up a video with sound?

 

[Pebblo]

Sorry for the late reply.

I've taken a video, removed the filler cap to show the oil splashing (only slight on the cam) and then had it rev'ed up to about 1,500 revs.

Not sure if its long enough for you to hear anythin, can do another if needed.

Not removed the air intake and had a listen with a screw driver yet, (or a engineer's stethoscope which I'll get) as the weather is crap, will do that tomoorw weather permitting.

Cheers for the help.

 

[12[X]]

there is always an amount of taping noise from an engine.. mine sounded like that after timing belt replacement (this gets a bit quieter as it warms up?).. Although, with timing done correctly, the noise is less.. having said that my engine has been starved of oil on two occasions (yep dealer putting in too much.. and it all dumping out me drive.. not a problem anymore -do the service myself now.. at 6 yrs old.. FMDSH is no longer needed..) so is likely to have suffered tappet damage too (it’s been like this.. that is sounding like a diesel.. almost since new)

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Bloody hell. Sounds like a Diesel, although my 1.4 sounds similar when the LPG injectors kick in, but can onl really here them with the bonnet open luckily.

 

[Pebblo]

Thats the thing tho guys, this doens't quieten down, it sounds like that all the time.

Warm engine and its still the same. I can even hear it when driving with music on (only slightly in the background)

It was never like this, always very quite, infact, I could hardly ever hear the engine.

If it only did that when it started up, I wouldn't mind, it wouldn't be that much of a bother to me tbh.

 

[12[X]]

Thats the thing tho guys, this doens't quieten down, it sounds like that all the time

yep.. (i said a bit.. a very small bit.. anyone taking a ride in the car for the first time asks if it is a diesel..) anyhow you could try a tappet lifting oil additive - it may help .. or not.. either way flash your oil after about 100k (these things destroy engines..) otherwise (unless you want to swap the followers and cams) you would have to endure (welcome to the club dude ) and be glad that added t o this noise your engine doesn’t shale like a diesel (that comes later )

 

[Pebblo]

lol, not sounding good then.

I was going to look into getting the tappets replaced/shimmed and get some prices to see if it was worth doing. I was tempted to have a go at cleaning them out and going through THIS to see if that sorted it but it doesn't seems like a nice job for a begginer.

Theres a full engine on ebay for £250 so might be worth me just lookin into getting that I supose.

 

[Deckchair5]

Wow, that's certainly a noisy top end.

So what's the timeline history here?

It just suddenly started making this much louder noise for no reason? No work done immediately prior? Did anyone change oil or oil filter immediately before this racket started?

 

[12[X]]

In my opinion, given your engine has no other issues, it is always best to keep it - there is no guarantee the new engine will not suffer from the same problem (or even something more serious).

Do let us know how you get on (if you sort this out - i might give it a go too )
a new tappet is about <t>£ 11 +
tappet guide is about <t>£ 0.18 +
lower cup is about <t>£ 0.73 +
springs (if needed) about <t>£ 2.50 each

 

[PNL]

I think that vid is pretty conclusive..it needs reshiming..not a major job for a pro but none the less it wont be a cheap one..

 

[Argonought]

Aren't they hydraulically adjusted on the 1.2 - although big clue as to what the problem might be (if it happened overnight) :chin:

 

[Pebblo]

So what's the timeline history here?

It just suddenly started making this much louder noise for no reason? No work done immediately prior? Did anyone change oil or oil filter immediately before this racket started?

Yep, pretty much. No oil change or filter before hand, it just started and then oil and filter was changed. Only work I had done was new pads on the rear brakes 2/3 weeks prior. The tapping started a week yesturday. Oil was changed 2 days after it started and then I drove to work on the wirral the next day. Read somewere it could take a few miles before the oil gets through the tappets so thought it might of done some good.

Aren't they hydraulically adjusted on the 1.2 - although big clue as to what the problem might be (if it happened overnight) :chin:

That a good thing or bad?

 

[Deckchair5]

Thats a good thing really

I'd say you still have poor oil feed (oil starvation) to the camshaft area so the cam buckets aren't filling up properly and they aren't taking up the slack so it sounds like a constantly stone cold engine with no oil in the buckets. Get oil going in there and you might be fine

The alarm bells are that there were very big and alarming oil issues with the garage. Let's say they didn't put ANY oil in (but didnt tell you) that'll give worn oil pump and reduced oil pressure. Overfilled might give oil foaming (oil doesn't compress but oil foam does) not desirable for the cams and tappets

Is there an issue with the oil filter area perhaps? Reduced flow there would give oil starvation too

If it's any help, here's my 1.2 Bravo on cold start and then one min after starting (same engine as yours bar the boring stuff) only this one has twice your mileage at 110k miles


Cold start and oil is already visible sloshing around inside rocker box


One minute after cold start. Noise drastically reduced as oil is already taking up the slack

So fault finding isn't going to be that easy but I'd be asking
Is there sufficient oil pressure and is that pressure getting to the camshaft area because it doesn't sound like it is.
Does your oil warning light go out immediately at start up?

Condensation traces on the inside of the filler cap? A red herring? Should have been washed away with oil in no time

 

[Argonought]

That a good thing or bad?

Strikes me if it happened that quickly then it has to be related to a blockage of the hydraulic mechanism i.e nothing is worn (yet)

Not sure what needs removing to get access but if it can be done without removing the head then I'd say it's worth doing.

If not stripping it then I'd seriously consider moving from the semi-synthetic to a fully synthetic 0W/30 or 5W/30 grade oil (fully synthetics are normally considered good for cleaning out engines - and being thinner should help too)

 

[Pebblo]

Cheers guys,

I'm gonna shoot to halfords tomorrow after work and pick up an new oil filter and some Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, will I be ok using halfords own brand oil filter (thats what I put on when I did the oil change) or should I go for something like Champion?

Also, I've been nosing through the eLearn CD and think I could remove the oil sump easily enough to have a look at the oil intake. Would that be worth the time or better spent somewere else?

Only thing I'm not sure about is the sump seal, is it just like when using silicone from a gun? If so I can't see it being a problem.

a blockage of the hydraulic mechanism

Is that the tappet itself, or something else?

 

[Deckchair5]

Also, I've been nosing through the eLearn CD and think I could remove the oil sump easily enough to have a look at the oil intake. Would that be worth the time or better spent somewere else?

Better spent getting a garage to check your oil pressure by plumbing in an oil pressure gauge where the oil pressure switch is located, usually close to the oil filter.


Oil pressure good? Then oil pump, filter and oil pick up is fine. Checking you have sufficient oil flow up to the camshaft area isn't quite so easy

 

[Pebblo]

OK sound, thanks very much for your replies Decks, Argonought, PNL and to everyone who replied really lol.

In work for the rest of the day now unfortunitly but will shoot round some garages tomorrow and see what they think. Thinking about the fact that I'm gonna be taking it in, is it worth holding off on another oil change for now?, as if they do end up taking the sump off its £40 wasted really.

 

[Argonought]

As said, wouldn't bother with a 2nd oil change if someone is going to start stripping the engine.

You can re-use oil you know, just make sure you collect in a clean container.

 

[ROWENA]

:hm:Reusing oil is not a good idea as it picks up contaminants from the lubrication system chuck it away and put fresh oil in everytime it aint worth it for £25