Technical Starting problem 2003 1.9D non turbo

[garethhill]

just picked this up cheap for my grandad hoping to sort the problem for him and get him underway since the timely demise of his much loved mk1 punto 1.7d

the car is a 2003 1.9 non turbo diesel that has covered 85000 miles
the glow plug light is flashing i have ordered new ones and will fit these this week know it aint the easiest job but they sure gotta be easier than on a peugeot XUD9 engine in a 306

when starting the car it starts very lumpy with the red engine management light on and no response what so ever from the accelerator pedal. if you then turn it off and restart it giving it a little rev it starts and runs fine it does this every time either hot or cold.

believed this may have been the cold start sensor so went looking for it and at the back of the engine i found the crankshaft rpm sensor still plugged in but detatched from the engine and zip tied out the way.

am i right in assuming that with no signal from the sensor yet it still being plugged in the ecu will substitute values but no show a EML?
is the crank sensor the same one as the JTD?

im reconing a new set of glow plugs, new cold start sensor and a new crank sensor should solve the problem (im hoping that as someone was getting rid of the car they went for a sticking plaster repair with the crank sensor to keep the car going and save cost of replacment)

could anyone please help on this.
many thanks

 

[T14086]

if ECU dont see crank signal it will stall and not restart (see numerous crank sensor threads in this section) I reckon as its non-turbo and has the dreaded lucas system its the pumps torque sensor (Fiat can measure the target/actual readings on examiner) at fault which needs new pump or £650 overhaul.

 

[garethhill]

oh great seems unusual that with the crank sensor not in the engine and thus not giving any reading that it does start and will run if given a little rev on the second start i completed a 40 mile journey today in it.

can you please tell me a little more about this torque sensor in the pump its not something i have seard of before

many thanks

 

[T14086]

does seem strange, depends on the in-built strategy in the ECU software. Was there no sensor fitted only when the crank sensor is changed often the old one is left in place but cable tied to the dipstick etc as there is a clip higher up that is a git to reach.

 

[garethhill]

never thought of that when i saw it there i assumed it was the only one i will have to have a good look under it

 

[garethhill]

Light at the end of the tunnel

posted a week or so ago regarding my grandads 03 doblo 1.9d non turbo
and its irregular starting.
well i changed the glow plugs (all 4 in less than an hour i impressed myself) checked the crank sensor was present (i found another one zip tied up out of the way) and yes there was.
carried out a full service -fuel and air filter were both black and oil filter was loose weeping oil, all replaced and now oil tight and freely filtering.

then started her...

first crack on the key with full response from the gas pedal a good result i think as was thinking might be the pump.
seems if the ecu detects a poor start (only 2 or 3 cylinders) it just locks into limp mode. only other thing im gonna change is the cold start (ecu temp) sensor as for less than a tenner it wont hurt to make sure the fuelling is correct

 

[Ulpian]

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

You obviously know what you are doing.

I can just about change a light bulb and key in the code for the car wash

 

[garethhill]

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

yup and all self taught some kids had beanos and dandys i had haynes manuals lol

 

[Ulpian]

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

Beano and Topper, but I take your point

 

[Niall_G]

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

Whitehouse & Knave....

 

[BargainHunterZA]

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel

posted a week or so ago regarding my grandads 03 doblo 1.9d non turbo
and its irregular starting.
well i changed the glow plugs (all 4 in less than an hour i impressed myself) checked the crank sensor was present (i found another one zip tied up out of the way) and yes there was.
carried out a full service -fuel and air filter were both black and oil filter was loose weeping oil, all replaced and now oil tight and freely filtering.

then started her...

first crack on the key with full response from the gas pedal a good result i think as was thinking might be the pump.
seems if the ecu detects a poor start (only 2 or 3 cylinders) it just locks into limp mode. only other thing im gonna change is the cold start (ecu temp) sensor as for less than a tenner it wont hurt to make sure the fuelling is correct

Hi,

IU have similar issue with the first start being limp and next start being fine, withing a few seconds between starts.

I'll check glowplugs and CAS sensor.

What gets me is that she runs fine, once running.
2003 non turbo, 62k miles FSH.