General Sound Systems!

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General Sound Systems!

A_Acolyte

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I'm curious,

Am I the only one in the world that has a nice sound-system in his Uno? Certainly here in South Africa I seem to be!

What is the situation elsewhere in the world? Anyone else got good sound in their Uno?

Sony MP3 CDX-MP40 Deck
Kenwood 5.25" 180watt splits (front)
Solar 10" 800watt DVC Sub - sealed box
120watt Calibra speakers (rear)

-Acolyte
 
I got a basic radio in mine as my uno is my work car (I am a plumber) so no thieving eyes get attracted to my car.
Pete
 
My sounds system is mega bling - Kenwood radio cassette head unit with 4 speaker output at 15 watts per channel :p 6x9" 3 way speakes in the rear quarter panels and 6" speakers in the doors. I also used to have tweeters in the front, though as my hearing is shot to pieces I took them out as I can't hear high frequencies (the tweeters were screwed into my old dashboard, and I didn't want to make holes in my new one). My 'install' is surprisingly powerful, though I don't think it will stand a chance in a million against some blinged up motor at a sound off thingy.

Still, I can hear the music and feel the bass, so who cares if it is not running 1000000000000 watts of music power through 500 speakers :p
 
Youre not the only one in SA!

Sony Xplod CDX-2250
Kenwood 6" 240W mids in front (custom install)
Kenwood 7x10" 360W in back (nicely hidden custom install)
Dream Audio 800W 4ch Amp

The sound pumps it to say the least! :)
 
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CyberMunky said:
Youre not the only one in SA!

Sony Xplod CDX-2250
Kenwood 6" 240W mids in front (custom install)
Kenwood 7x10" 360W in back (nicely hidden custom install)
Dream Audio 800W 4ch Amp

The sound pumps it to say the least! :)

Glad to hear it! :) What music do you mostly play on it?

Good point of mentioning that they're hidden. Here in South Africa, thats as important as getting 'em in the first place! I mean, if you wanna keep it all for more than a week...

Where did you install the mids in front? In the doors? Or somehow in the dashboard (where you're 'supposed' to fit speakers)? There's only space there for 4" speakers, but I've got my 5.25" ones in there. Though that means they're slightly down-firing, because the tweeters are sitting up on my dash I lose virtually no fidelity (bass frequencies being omni-directional and all).

Ideally I'd have liked my speakers to go in the doors, but if I recall, that'd have meant that I lose that plastic 'compartment' thingy along the bottom of the door.

Because I only have teeny-weeny little 4"ers at the back to fill, I have them fitted where you're 'supposed' to fit speakers in the back. Thats handy cos it means I still have my standard back-board. If you look into my car the only thing you'll see if you look around real close if the tweeters, but they're hard to spot. I never leave the CD face on, and without it it could be any crappy one. So, touch-wood, my sound-system won't get nicked in a hurry.

Trouble is, these new rims seem to be drawing attention... I'd better make sure my insurance is all in order... :/

-Acolyte.

PS. Forgot to mention the amp: Solar 1200watt 4 channel.
 
Good points there A_Acolyte! (y)
I would be a little worried that the dashboard may not be an ideally-sealed enclosure?

I also have just 4" speakers at the back (in the 'proper' places) for rear fill. It's surprising what sound you can get out of 4" speakers these days. Quite rich, not harsh (if you choose carefully). With them all being coaxial two-way these days, it can be quite a hazard if you get some with a harsh, 'brassy' tweeter.

This is assuming that you stick with the school of thought that says "most sound should come from the front, with only a slight perception of sound from the rear". It seems that whether you believe this or not is strictly a matter for personal preference!

I do, so I tend to put the best speakers I can in the front. For my 164, I put in some real effort to seal-up the front doors, sticking bitumen sheet over all the 'holes' in the metalwork (no not rust holes, silly, the spaces in the framework behind the door trim panel ;)) This makes the door into a 'box', which makes a huge difference to how any speaker sounds. Coupled with a solid mounting for the speaker, and the angle-able tweeters on the Infinity Kappas, I think the result is fantastic.

My Uno unfortunately fares less well! The door cards have had some large holes carved in them in the past (I'm trying to remember what speakers were in there when I bought it - some horrible 'Rodastar' cardboard jobs I think) so I've stuck in a succession of different 6" and 6.5" jobs. Currently it has some cheap no-brand speakers from the electronics shop at which I used to work. Amazing low staff price of about $12 (five pounds!) Polypropylene cone, rubber surround, and good soft-dome tweeter.

The problem is that the speaker flaps around horribly. It's pretty hit-and-miss to get the screws into the rather sparse metalwork, plus you can't use the door pocket (as you mentioned) since the pocket screws on from the back of the door trim. It may be a wise idea to just drill holes neatly through the pocket, where needed to gain access to the speaker screws.

I plan to mount some pieces of MDF behind the door trim (screwed to the metalwork) and screw the speaker into that. Will be a lot stiffer. I have a set of Kevlar component lovelies, staff price $70 (bought a few days before I left that job...)

The only thing is that I agonise over adding weight to my Uno Turbo... there's also a carbon fibre 10" sub (staff price $80... :rolleyes:) sitting in my garage... and a 80WRMSX4 amp (staff price... oh you get the idea ;)) Both of these will sap acceleration - car audio gear is so HEAVY!

Head unit in my Uno is a rather cheap and nasty Sony (one of the more basic models: CDX-R3300) but it looks the part and plays MP3s. Problem is that it has no line-in (so can't use my iPod, unlike with the Blaupunkt units in my 164 and X1/9) and there is only one pair of line-outs.

The amp I plan to use has no speaker-level inputs (many do these days) so this appears to pose a problem if I want to amplify the front speakers. The Sony's line-out is switchable between 'Rear' and 'Sub'. The solution dawned on me the other day. I think if I just use the 'Rear' output for the front two speakers, daisy-chain the same output to the other two amp channels (bridged: 160W) and use the amp's crossover to drive the sub, then the fader will work the wrong way (rear will be front) but will anyone care? The non-amplified front outputs will then drive the rear speakers - 4" as already mentioned...

The back of the 10" sub is polished aluminium/chrome. It seems a shame to hide da bling in de box, I's thinkin should be like uptide-down on back shelf, know what ah mean, yer?

I remember listening to Chas' stereo at a sound-off against my rental Vauxhall Corsa (obviously an extremely official event!) and yes, Chas has a lot of sound in his Uno... big speakers, but not what I would have called 'bling' in those black plastic 80s' grilles. :D And, we probably wouldn't agree about imaging (for the record, I thought the Corsa was good) but then again, as I said before, car stereos are a personal thing.

I think the best (worst?) Uno stereo setup that I've seen was two house speakers, one behind the other where the back seat should have been, in jjhepburn's Uno as he acquired it. The thin wires trailed across the floor to the two-shaft radio cassette.

My favourite sub install was the one I did in my Austin Princess. The 12" Pyle was boxed, but I thought it would be nice to have it inside the car with me rather than confined to the boot. So, I cut a 12" hole in the rear shelf, below that huge rear window (and the gorgeous vinyl roof). I screwed the box to the underside of the rear shelf, so the speaker poked through the hole. Carpeted around it. The sound was amazing and I could seldom see clearly out of the rear view mirror.

15" sub in my Lancia Thema was a similar disaster even though that puppy was trapped in the boot. No-one would ride in that car with me. I didn't like the sound anyway, I hate hip-hop music. I've decided that a 10" or even an 8" is more appropriate for me.

The other day I stumbled over the pile of car stereo boxes in the living room. It transpires that I've bought eleven head units in recent years, some for other people. I suppose I am a bit of a nutter.

-Alex
 
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Alex will roll his eyes, but I have a stereo out of an uno I wrecked and the speakers out of another one :)

My main requirement for a car stereo is that is has 4 channels and digital tuning with at least 5 station presets :) This has all that so its perfect for listening to the radio on the way to work.

But above all my top priority is that it be FREE which mine is... It even has a removable face :)

Sub's just take up boot space and encourage your number plate to fall off
 
Alex,

Yeah, loud sound is easy - powerful, 'controlled' sound isn't. I'm sure you agree.

As with yourself, I far prefer sound to come mostly from the front, with only the rear filled slightly (so it doesn't sound like you're standing with your back to the edge of the universe).

You mention all the effort that you've been through to get speakers into the Uno doors. Sounds tedious. My 5.25" fit into my dash (where they're 'supposed' to be), but its a tight fit. As you say, one would lose a lot of punch by placing them there because the dashboard is plastic and there's no 'backing' for the speakers to sound against. To combat that, the dudes that did my sound installation stuff some heavy material behind them. They sound awesome, so I can only conclude that it must have worked. Of course, as I said in my previous message, its not ideal that they face downwards slightly, but, given that they're splits, that isn't audibly a problem - the frequencies that one would tend to lose through that (the high frequences) aren't running through those speakers anyway - the crossover sends them to the tweeters which are mounted on top of my dashboard looking me square in the eyeball! :)

I agree with what you say about subwoofers. It was a very tough decision at the time, but I decided to get the 10". Though I listen to trance, I listen to metal mostly, so that seemed like an illogical choice by all those that I spoke to. Also, both those music-types are very bass-hungry. They're right of course, but I really really didn't want a 'floppy' bass sound - I wanted it as tight as possible (for the kickdrums and bass-guitar slaps etc in metal mostly). Any subwoofer that can produce a tight, punchy bass sound can produce a floppy, rolling bass sound too, but not the other way around.

So, solution was to get a 10" in a SEALED cabinet (which, because its not ported produces a much tighter sound). The trade-off of course is that its much less efficient - you lose amplitude (volume). Thats why I got the most powerful one I could find - 800watts RMS Dual Voice Coil. Very expensive, but worth every cent. I have the rolling, smooth bass that I need for Trance and Drum & Bass, as well as the tight, punchy sound for metal. :slayer:

I concur - the gear IS heavy - most specifically the subwoofer box. Takes up most of the boot as well, and on an Uno thats a bad, bad thing. I now never open my boot because of it. I don't mind though. I didn't buy the car because I needed to lug stuff around with it.

...and yes, I too seldom see clearly out of my rear-view mirror! But hey - good sound is soooooo necessary! :D

Which reminds me of something I've been pondering on for a loooong time now - soundproofing. What the best way to do that in an Uno? And, is it worth doing? The concern is, of course, the weight of the soundproofing material and the fact that I want a fast car. Kinda paradoxical, but oad-roar and engine noise is quite a factor at 140+ km/h in these cars so its perhaps worth doing.

Your thoughts?
-Acolyte
 
Great post Acolyte! Or is that -Acolyte? I should have trademarked the leading hyphen... :)

Yes, I agree about the imaging as you describe with the speakers pointing downwards - it can work well, as it may equalise the distance for the left & right speakers from the driver's seat. Also, the stuffing behind the speakers has the effect of making the speakers behave as if in a smaller enclosure - which in the hollow space of the dashboard is probably what you want.

Smaller enclosure, not ported = less volume, that would explain why my 12" sub in a very small sealed box was not very successful - that and the fact the 164's boot is rather well sealed. Luckily my 10" Carbon-Fibre sub is dual-voice-coil and the boot of the Uno is far from sealed...

Now, soundproofing. Where to begin? :)
The basic theory is sound-deadening, where a material is added to the sheet steel to absorb vibrations. A thin bitumen-type material will attenuate high-frequency sounds (in theory) because it changes the resonant frequency of the steel to which it is applied. A thick, soft material will reduce low-frequency noise, effectively creating a barrier (like the earmuffs when you use a lawnmower). The best technique is usually a sandwich, with the thin material against the steel and then overlayed with the thicker, softer material.

If we start by considering the soundproofing installed by FIAT... (it won't take long)

- On the more deluxe models (e.g. 70SL) there is a rectangle of bitumen self-adhesive sheet applied to the inside of the door skin. This does not need to cover the whole area. The main effect is that if you flick the outside of the door with your finger, there is no tinny 'clang'. Closing the door therefore sounds better.

- On all models, there are similar squares in the floorpan, though some Mk1 base models do not have squares in the rear footwells. These bitumen squares are then overlayed with a green fluffy underlay (looks like recycled clothes).

- Similar fluffy material is applied to the firewall and front floor, but with a thick bitumen layer on the outside. I think the idea of this is to provide a 'barrier', though I am surprised that the bitumen is not against the steel (probably arranged this way for durability reasons).

- On the metalwork that forms the rear strut towers, there are specially-shaped bitumen sheets. This is interesting because so far, we only saw the bitumen applied to large, flat areas which tend to 'ring' like a bell. You would think that small, curved sections of steel would not resonate as easily. Yet, FIAT have obviously spent the money to install sound-deadening there (also in the spare wheel housing).

- The underside of the bonnet, on most models apart from early Mk1 base models, has a black fibrous pad similar to the firewall on all models (inside the engine compartment) which on Turbo models is foil-covered to reduce heat transfer. The sound insulation attached to the bonnet is probably not that important for noise levels inside the car.

And, that's about it.

So, where do you start? Invest in four or five large 'squares' (about 50cmx50cm) of the self-adhesive bitumen. Car stereo shops sell it. I think it's about $16/sheet (65 Rand?) Not cheap - so I came up with a cheaper solution - 'underseal' in a can, to 'glue' offcuts of flooring vinyl in place. It works nearly as well and costs only a quarter the price...

Improve the deadening in the doors (it's probably fallen off anyway), fit a foam sheet to improve the 'seal' of the door trim card.

Take out the carpet. You'll see a large number of oval/round holes in the inner sills, extending up to the door hinge area and across the back of the rear footwells in front of the fuel tank. Sometimes, in basic Uno models, you can hear fuel sloshing around when you come to a stop in traffic, so there must also be quite a bit of road noise getting though into the floor. Solve this by covering all the oval/round holes with the bitumen sheet (maybe after spraying in some anti-rust wax!) - a hot air gun is essential to mould the sheeting into place.

Under the carpet, use fairly dense underlay material if you can. Car upholstery shops sell this. Unlike FIAT, you will be able to cover the whole floor area up to the seat rails. It is not expensive (1.8m x 1m will be about $20 - R80). Local experience will tell whether the stuff will rot (and stink) if it gets wet. It is worth fixing any water leaks that you know of... My experience is that this underlay by itself is not terribly effective against noise but in conjunction with the bitumen deadening and sealed holes, it helps. It also gives the carpet a nice soft feel...

Inside the boot, there are more holes - which probably allow the sound from the large rear-quarter panels to get through. I think you should start with the material that FIAT applied and work outwards. That is, any flat areas like the boot floor should also be 'deadened' since they are obviously going to pick up vibrations from the suspension, the same as the strut towers. You may like to place some underlay under the boot floor/carpet.

I think that the roof would benefit from having some bitumen sheeting applied. The headlining tends to not keep intimate contact with the roof as the years go by. I'm sure when it was new, it was reasonably effective. Again, there are various holes in the metalwork which could be sealed up.

The heater chamber (under the windscreen) seems to be a big sounding-box to me. I think that lining it with bitumen sheeting (as standard in my 164) will possibly reduce resonance, though it may be more worthwhile to work on the actual bulkhead itself to reduce sound transfer from the engine bay. Again, the standard soundproofing is usually sagging away from the metalwork. And under the dashboard, where the top corners tend to fold back on themselves. Perhaps invest in some Ados contact glue and apply some underlay to any gaps.

The FIAT Stilo shows an interesting approach to reducing tyre noise. There is a furry, carpet-like material applied in the wheelarches! Yes, on the outside! I don't think this is necessarily a good idea for the Uno (though black carpet on the plastic wheelarch liner may be OK!) The space behind the liner could perhaps be deadened with some heavy application of the underseal in a can mentioned before. Foam or underlay would not be wise behind the liner because of the obvious corrosion trap.

Once you start soundproofing, you may become aware of particular 'noise areas' that warrant further attention. For example, in my Uno it sounds like the passenger's door is slightly open at all times. This will lead you to holes in the weather-stripping, loosely-fitting windows, gaps around wing mirrors etc. which can all be sealed up. Sometimes it helps to remove the weatherstripping and tap the spot-welded flange outwards, evenly with a mallet, to make the seal tighter.

Plus of course you will need to eradicate various squeaks and rattles from the seats (grease the rails) and the dashboard - take apart and at the fixtures apply silicone grease, pack in foam rubber, or possibly do what the more up-market manufacturers do and install 'squeak and rattle' tape. This is basically a thin fibrous tape, usually black cloth, applied along the edges of plastic pieces to avoid grinding/creaking contact. Masking tape will do in a pinch.

Right, there's a few of my thoughts :)

Also consider buying more expensive tyres next time you are up for replacements, though I am not familiar with 'Nexen' and maybe they are already top-stuff?... I know that the big manufacturers (e.g. Michelin) spend a lot on reducing noise, and it makes quite a difference. The profile is working against you, though... ever wondered why luxury cars usually have 60-profile tyres? ;)

-Alex
 
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alexGS said:
Great post Acolyte! Or is that -Acolyte? I should have trademarked the leading hyphen... :)

....looooooong, informative post......

-Alex

Aha! I see you've been sucked in by the inimitable hyphen! Cool. :)

Indeed you've given me much to ponder on. All this sound deadening is gonna be a HUGE job, and pretty damn expensive too it looks like. Cost isn't too much of a problem though - so long as it works!

I'm gonna think about this some more. Perhaps leave it til summer (we're going into winter now).

I find it interesting that since installing these wider tyres my road-roar noise has actually DECREASED since my 155's! 8/ Weird huh? The 155's musta been really ****. These Nexens seem to be pretty good, especially if the price is anything to go by - they costed a sweet fortune. (I didn't have much option though - 195/45/15's seem to be really difficult to get here). These had to be acquired in johannesburg. This country is really pathetic in that sense - no stock of anything, especially if its in any way, shape, or form exotic/unusual.

Thank you for all that you wrote about the sound-proofing. I'll read it over carefully and give the whole thing some more thought - its gonna be a big job!

-Acolyte.
 
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