Technical SOS from India - Uno Fire MKII

[Danyaal]

Hi,

I am in India at my father in-laws village on a long, long holiday. My wifes cousin, not knowing anything about cars payed what seems like over the odds for a MKII Uno Fire. The car has numerous problems with it, which I am trying to help him fix. I dont know much about cars but I am trying to assess whether the car is worthwhile fixing, whether it is better to sell it for anything that he can get for it or whether he should attempt to make the perilous (given the current state of the car) five hour journey to the nearest city with a FIAT dealer to have a diagnostics done.

The car has 16,000Km on it for a 1999 car......hhhmmmm. Can we improvise on any of the probs without having to get a FIAT part ?.

I'll try posting pictures in a few hours or as soon as the rains stop.
Here goes with the problems:-

1. At the front of the engine bay on the left hand side there is what looks like a small black drum with the words "fuel tank" on it. On top of this there seems to be what looks like a black screw cap with the words "Rochester Products, Control VAC 2" on it. From this screw cap there are two pipes, one black and the other blue. They connect on the thing that sits above and behind the engine and in between them on this thing is a screw (see point 3 below). So, as we look at it from from left to right, we have blue pipe - screw - black pipe. However, the "male" bit that sticks out of the thing has snapped off in the black pipe and the black pipe is just dangling there. The local mechanic said it does'nt do anything so don't worry about it.

2. Loss / lack of power
As you shift through the gears while driving from standstill: There is acceleration in 1st and 2nd but not as much as you would expect. In 3rd, the car accelerates but you have to floor the pedal. At 40km/h (any fatser and the car is liable to take off given the number of potholes in the road) in 4th, with the pedal floored the car, if you're lucky will maintain speed but loses speed most of the time. Causing you to drive in 3rd for most of the time while at this speed.
If you encounter an incline, sometimes dropping throught the gears does nothing to halt the decrease in speed until you come to the point at which the car stalls. On re-starting the car you are able to negotiate the incline in either 1st or 2nd gear. Now, thats assuming you're not rolling down (in reverse) the side of the valley at this point due to point 3 & 5 below.

3. Stalling
The vacuum advance pump(vap) seems to have gone and I have blocked the air intake with a screw as suggested in other posts (thanks to all who contributed to those). When the fix to the vap was applied the screw mentioned in point 1 above is able to affect the revs. The car still stalls on occasions but the fix did improve things dramatically

4. Breaking
The car does'nt seem to be as responsive to breaking as I would expect.

5. Hand brake
The hand brake can be pulled all the way up and it still rolls. Do you need a specific Fiat part to fix this or can a mechanic in the local town improvise?, or could we improvise with something, barring cutting a hole out and using our feet ?.

6. Oil leak
There is oil around the engine and connection with distributor(marcelli). I don't know if its simply seals that need replacing or whether there is something wrong with the head. Is taking the top half off simple enough to do for a novice like me to change any rings that need replacing. While the top is off, would I be able to tell simply by looking if there is a problem with the head ?.
I dont know if the car is losing any water or oil as journeys given the state of the car have been kept deliberately short.

7. Screaching noise
The car makes a screaching noise every now. Could this be a loose cambelt ?.

8. Poping / backfiring
It makes this noise I think when attempting to accelerate hard.

9. Other
9.1. The slider that controls the mix of air entering the cabin, between fresh at one end and recycled cabin air at the other can'nt get beyond the half way mark.
9.2. The dial that directs air to de-fog the front windscreen when selected does not in fact direct air to the windscreen. Dangerous, given that we are in the monsoon season and the fact that the roads are covered in potholes and shared between cars, people, cows, bulls, dogs and horses. I once had a stand off with a pony. The pony did'nt budge no matter how hard I revved the engine or how many times I sounded the horn. All it did was chew whateever it had in its mouth and give me the evil eye !.
9.3. The indicators and hazard have stopped working despite him fitting new lights a month ago.


Many Thanks
Danyaal

 

[alexGS]

Welcome to the forum, Danyaal! :wave:

That's a great number of questions, so I'm going to pick the ones I can answer best - hopefully you'll get lots of other suggestions too.

2 and 3. Treat it to a new vacuum advance unit and set the timing correctly, using a timing light. Without vacuum advance (disconnected and plugged), adjust the distributor so that the timing light (connected to spark plug 1) flashes when the flywheel mark lines up with '5' in the gearbox bellhousing window. In other words, ignition timing should be 5 degrees.

4 and 5. Rear shoes probably need replacing. The shoes have self-adjusters and these are sometimes faulty, which causes extra brake pedal travel, plus the handbrake won't work very well. I think you should buy new shoes (from any brake parts shop) but you may also get the shoes re-lined, except that won't fix the faulty self-adjusters (if they are faulty). The fault is basically that a pair of spring-loaded washers fail to stay in place.

5. Also, each rear brake has a curved steel lever that goes through a slot in the brake backplate. These levers are prone to corrosion and seizing - while you are changing the shoes, take the levers out, clean and grease them.

6. Have a look for recent posts here about "the day I changed my O-ring", by UCof.

7. No. Cambelts don't screech. Tensioner bearing (that the cambelt runs on) might be faulty - or, if the screech is when you start the engine and perhaps when you turn the headlights on, replace the alternator drive belt.

8. May be valve trouble (which would explain the lack of power), but definitely start with ignition timing and spark plug replacement.

9. These points are probably specific to what we call the 'Mk2' (series II Uno, '89-'94 in many countries) and may differ if you have air conditioning (which we've never seen). It sounds as though the heater box needs to be taken apart and the flaps need fixing, re-lining with foam, or perhaps a flap is simply jammed by a coin 'posted' into the demister slots by a small child...!


Hope this helps you in the right direction - it seems like a lot to fix but actually, one weekend should see that Uno in much better shape.

-Alex

 

[Ucof]

1. At the front of the engine bay on the left hand side there is what looks like a small black drum with the words "fuel tank" on it. On top of this there seems to be what looks like a black screw cap with the words "Rochester Products, Control VAC 2" on it. From this screw cap there are two pipes, one black and the other blue. They connect on the thing that sits above and behind the engine and in between them on this thing is a screw (see point 3 below). So, as we look at it from from left to right, we have blue pipe - screw - black pipe. However, the "male" bit that sticks out of the thing has snapped off in the black pipe and the black pipe is just dangling there. The local mechanic said it does'nt do anything so don't worry about it.

No idea what this is. Mine doesn't have it (Mine's a Mk2 Fire too). Could it be an extra fuel tank? What is the capacity of it do you think?

2. Loss / lack of power
As you shift through the gears while driving from standstill: There is acceleration in 1st and 2nd but not as much as you would expect. In 3rd, the car accelerates but you have to floor the pedal. At 40km/h (any fatser and the car is liable to take off given the number of potholes in the road) in 4th, with the pedal floored the car, if you're lucky will maintain speed but loses speed most of the time. Causing you to drive in 3rd for most of the time while at this speed.
If you encounter an incline, sometimes dropping throught the gears does nothing to halt the decrease in speed until you come to the point at which the car stalls. On re-starting the car you are able to negotiate the incline in either 1st or 2nd gear. Now, thats assuming you're not rolling down (in reverse) the side of the valley at this point due to point 3 & 5 below.

As Alex said, new vacuum pump. I changed mine over in that "The day i cahnged my O-ring and and Diaphragm" thread.

3. Stalling
The vacuum advance pump(vap) seems to have gone and I have blocked the air intake with a screw as suggested in other posts (thanks to all who contributed to those). When the fix to the vap was applied the screw mentioned in point 1 above is able to affect the revs. The car still stalls on occasions but the fix did improve things dramatically

Again, new VAP. Or increase the idleing speed. I'd definitely go with the VAP first though.

4. Breaking
The car does'nt seem to be as responsive to breaking as I would expect.

Brake earlier and harder

5. Hand brake
The hand brake can be pulled all the way up and it still rolls. Do you need a specific Fiat part to fix this or can a mechanic in the local town improvise?, or could we improvise with something, barring cutting a hole out and using our feet ?.

Get an anchor to throw out the boot. Or you can adjust the handbrake cable yourself. Or the mechanic at the garage can. It's fairly easy if you have the tools and the space.

6. Oil leak
There is oil around the engine and connection with distributor(marcelli). I don't know if its simply seals that need replacing or whether there is something wrong with the head. Is taking the top half off simple enough to do for a novice like me to change any rings that need replacing. While the top is off, would I be able to tell simply by looking if there is a problem with the head ?.
I dont know if the car is losing any water or oil as journeys given the state of the car have been kept deliberately short.

Standard problem for Uno's. Worry not, it's "a piece of p!ss to fix" I believe were my words. As Alex said, look at my "The day I changed my O-ring" thread. Lots of pics are good.

7. Screaching noise
The car makes a screaching noise every now. Could this be a loose cambelt ?.

No idea. have you tried humming at the same frequency to see if this stops it?

8. Poping / backfiring
It makes this noise I think when attempting to accelerate hard.

Clean your spark plugs up and check all the leads.

9. Other
9.1. The slider that controls the mix of air entering the cabin, between fresh at one end and recycled cabin air at the other can'nt get beyond the half way mark.

Sounds jammed like Alex says

9.2. The dial that directs air to de-fog the front windscreen when selected does not in fact direct air to the windscreen. Dangerous, given that we are in the monsoon season and the fact that the roads are covered in potholes and shared between cars, people, cows, bulls, dogs and horses. I once had a stand off with a pony. The pony did'nt budge no matter how hard I revved the engine or how many times I sounded the horn. All it did was chew whateever it had in its mouth and give me the evil eye !.

is the left hand dial set to "Max"? It doesn't demist very well if it isn't.

9.3. The indicators and hazard have stopped working despite him fitting new lights a month ago.

Can you hear the fuse clicking ok? It's on the left of the passenger footwell (right hand drive car)




EDIT - here is that "The day I changed my O-ring thread" - https://www.fiatforum.com/uno/200150-day-i-changed-my-o-ring-diaphragm.html

Also, for all the helpful and observant people, here's the PDF Uno Haynes manual - http://www.hyperloophoop.com/Uno_HY_Manual.pdf

 

[Uno driver]

2., 8. I would check timing belt as it might have slipped for a tooth or two. This causes backfiring and lack of power.

1. Dont worry about charcoal canister. Disconnect both pipes (blue from fuel tank and black from inlet manifold) and block them. Don't leave them open.

 

[rawill]

Yes to above it certainly would.

I was going to give reply but alexGS beat me, with most of the same things I was going to say, only more of them.

Basics first, plugs, points, dwell angle, (if it has points!!) timing, air and fuel filter. Get them done and check valve timing, and if the cam belt and tensioner need changed.

Then get into the trickier stuff.

 

[Danyaal]

Thanks, Alex, Ucof, Uno driver and rawill for your help and advice and to Ucof for reposting the link to the PDF version of the Haynes Manual which I am trying to fathom out at the moment.

1. Rochester Products, Control VAC 2

Uno driver: what the heck is it?. When, Alex siad in his reply to 9 ,

These points are probably specific to what we call the 'Mk2' (series II Uno, '89-'94 in many countries) and may differ if you have air conditioning (which we've never seen)

. I thought that maybe the VAC was related to HVAC, thinking it had something to do with the Air Conditioning that this car has.
Well, .... it has the button that says AC on it which does nothing when pressed.

2 & 3. Loss / lack of power & Stalling

Alex: I don't think I'll have any option here but to buy the part direct from FIAT. However, I am investigating my options at the moment as I'm not familiar with the spares market here. In the mean time I have fired off some emails to FIAT to see what they come back with.

Ucof: I'll do as suggested and change the O ring when I replace the VAP.

Uno driver: I'll attempt to check the timing belt over the weekend after reading th manual and other posts(I'll have to find them first). Will I need any special tools for this ?.

4. and 5. Break not responsive & Hand brake

Alex: Again, this was in the mail fired off to FIAT.

Ucof: Not young enough to make a dash for the boot in time. Besides, I've seen the Italian Job too many times to fancy that much weight in the boot. However, your reply gave me the idea of practicing the lasso. Figured, I might be able to latch on to a branch on the way down or maybe if you know how to perform the Indian snake rope trick, you could post instructions here. Do they practice anything similar in the Welsh valleys, did'nt see anything when I was in the Rhonda ?.

6. Oil leak

Alex & Ucof: I'll will change the O ring when I get the parts. Which hopefully, be some time this year.

7. Screaching

Alex: spot on, yes, it does happen sometimes when you start the engine. While, other times not. Again, the part is in the mail to Fiat.

Ucof: Sorry mate, I am seriously vocally challenged, you would'nt want to hear my voice . May be you could give us a rendition of one of Tom Jones classics.

8, Popping / Backfiring

Alex, Ucof & Uno driver: will give the plugs a clean over the weekend. And, may be replace after I have found a mechanic with a timing light to check the timing.

Where is the gearbox bellhousing?.

While we are on the topic of spark plugs can you tell me where the leads from behind the cylinder 1,2,3,4 should go to on the ditstributor, 2 is out of site opposite 5 and 4 from the distributor goes to the ignition coil.

rawill: you asked me to check timing and valve timing. Are they different?.

9. Other

Alex: does having an AC unit change your reply to this one ?.
Ucof: will check the clicking over the weekend. How long have I got b4 it goes BANG!.

Would anyone know just by looking at the picture of the engine bay:
- what the engine size is ?
- what carb it has ?
- whether it has SPI ?

rawill: on the Fuel filter, when checking/replacing will I have to depressurise the fuel system, thought I saw this when I was skim reading the Haynes manual ?


Many Thanks to all who replied
Danyaal

 

[Ucof]

GAH!

I pressed "back" for some reason, and have lost the lovely post I made


1) The black box that says "Fuel tank" is what the air filter will be in. DO NOT DISCONNECT THIS FROM YOUR ENGINE! It connects up to the carb and has the fresh air intake, the exhaust manifold inlet, and the engine oil inlet too.

8) The gearbox bellhousing is on the right of the engine bay, below the engine. It looks a bit like a bell on it's side.

9) As long as you like, but glad you have a sense of humour!


As for the size of the engine...unless I'm mistaken, all FIRE engines are 999cc. Not sure about the carb, the Haynes manual will tell you.


Good luck over the weekend!
Take pictures

 

[Uno driver]

This Uno has much more then 16.000km by the look of the engine bay.

I think this black drum could be charcoal canister for fuel vapour recovery system, but I've never seen one in Unos with carb. It also looks different, in my fuel injected uno it's plastic and rectangular. Engine should run normaly without it. It says "fuel tank" because pipe above comes from fuel tank.

Check also jets in carb, if they are clogged this could explain lack of power, but check timing first.

 

[rawill]

First, I think you are very new to this car maintenance thing. So good on you for giving it a a go. Don't be put off by the strange terms and unfamiliar parts.

As you read your Haynes, and read on here and elsewhere it will start to fall into place as long as your persevere. I know, I was a mechanic but amongst other hobbies I have taught myself to build computers and set up Satellite Tevelvision on a Moteck. So just keep at it.

Yes Ignition timing and and valve timing are different.

The ignition timing does need a timing light. The valve timing is the timing relationship between the crankshaft and the camshaft. The valve timing will never change, except when the belt has got very loose. This can only happen if the cambelt tensioner is not doing its job and allows the cambelt to have too much slack. Then the cam can slip a tooth. It happened to me twice when a garage replaced the cam belt in my Mitsubishi Galant. they never replaced the tensioner and when I was driving it slipped. It happened twice, the second time was because they did not realise there was a second tensioner which they had not adjusted. I was very lucky, so were they as Mitsubishi engines had an interference fit. Any more slippage and the valves would have been bent. I am told that in our Fiats we don't have that issue.

Fuel filter:

My Unos are old, 84,88, the fuel filter is not under pressure on them. Not sure about yours. But in my Saabs there is a little pressure and the worst thing is you lose a little fuel when you replace them. You can take the pressure off but I have not ever bothered to. I always replace the fuel filter when I buy a car, they can get filled with rubbish, eventually block and stop you out on the road. Most people never bother to check them. On cars with the fuel pump in the tank, if the filter starts to block, the extra load wears out the fuel pump prematurely. Often they are expensive to replace.

 

[a73uk]

Thats not the `right` carb fitted on it, at least its not the 32TLF we have on our ones...

Yours seems to be bolted on at the base of the carb, where as ours have long bolts that pass all the way through the carb to the inlet manofold...

The intake system/air filter box etc, although completely different to ours, looks to be factory though... strange..

I`d love to know what that is... can you read any of the codes on it Danyaal?

 

[a73uk]

Looking at this pic closer, I`d say that 1. is a carb base mounting bolt.

2. seems to show the carb is significantly smaller than the sandwich plate between the carb & inlet manifold...

Something just doesnt feel right there.

Could it be a mismatched carb causing running issues/backfiring?