Technical Snapped rear spring cup.

[WyreWheels]

Putting the rough running on hold, I noticed something hanging low at the back of Stan’s Panda on Saturday when I returned to it after a bit of shopping in Lancaster. The offside spring cup on the rear beam has snapped in half. Although rustier than the Titanic in that region, I think me hitting a pothole on Friday did the damage.

I’ve been looking for a new beam, note that they are available for £135 on eBay, but a vendor on this site sells a 500 beam with an ARB for £140.

I am aware there will be much in the way of rusty nuts and bots, brake lines etc to deal with.

Would I be better off with a new beam and a swap over of brakes or find a newer beam complete off eBay or Facebook marketplace?

Any top tips? I have replaced Mini front and rear subframes in my younger years, so I’m not worried about doing the work, more about very rusty fittings not being too compliant.

Thanks in advance.

 

[koalar]

New beam
New pipes

The rest depends on the condition

New brake assembly including back plate, is sometimes more economical

Everything else should swap over, drums are normally fine

500 would need to inform the insurance company it's 50mm wider it's a sususpention modification, it will effect the handling regardless of what you read on the internet

Absolute cheapest axle I could find end of last year was £115 new delivered

An was cheaper than most second hand in reasonable condition

 

[WyreWheels]

I think you’re right re new vs used, they are so cheap.

I’m also conscious that putting a 500 rear end on without upping the front with a thicker ARB and more track might make things slightly off somehow.

 

[DaveMcT]

500 rear axle with 500 springs improves handling because the back end tracks better. The wider width has no negative effect (on Panda) no tramlining on road joints no nasties in heavy rain.

HOWEVER the IM replacement axles have a thicker metal cross beam so anti-roll effect will be improved and everything else is standard so no worries.

You will need the stub axles but the studs will be rusty and the threads strip out. Before you start, get an M10 fine thread nut to chase the threads. A normal die and handle won't fit but you could grind flats onto a cheap die so it can be turned.

M10 high tensile bolts would be a better replacement heat up the spindle to 150 C to loosen any Loctite.

I fitted braided hoses from underbody flare nuts all the way to the brakes. It’s so much easier and well worth the extra cost. Get at least four barrel grommets on each one for tying down.

Cut the flexible hoses and spin the fragment off the steel pipe flare nut. A little heat from a gas lighter will free off the nut. Always protect the exposed bare metal. Plug the hose fragments to temporarily cap off the brake pipes.

Brake slave cylinders are so cheap just replace them.

The axle is easiest to remove when you unbolt the pivot brackets from the car body. Three bolts each side.

Rusty springs are a liability. Get replacements from Shop4parts. Might as well get dampers as well.

 

[WyreWheels]

Thanks for the advice, all very useful. I replaced rubber/hard brake lines on the old Mini and did wonder about doing it on this - I’ll have a look at it further.

 

[jrkitching]

did wonder about doing it on this - I’ll have a look at it further

Worth doing if you can do it yourself, but first check the condition of the sills; they are known to corrode to the point of MOT failure on cars of this age.

There's probably not sufficient value left in a 15 yr old 1.1 Panda to justify paying the cost of a garage repair unless the car is in otherwise excellent condition and you plan on keeping it. It's an 'open ended' job, depending on what else is corroded, and the bill could easily run into four figures. In this case, consider selling it 'as is' to someone who can fix it, and put the money toward something better.

 

[WyreWheels]

Without the aid of a safety net or Haynes manual, I’ve got it up on axle stands, handbrake cables are out and unhooked, ABS sensor wires disconnected, bottom shock bolts free, the hinge bracket to body bolts are free.

All that remains to do is get the brake lines undone. However, a quick try suggest those might be the worst bit to deal with. It looks like it would be better to disconnect where the flexi hose joins the main hard line on the body. The bracket is very fragile. I’ve given them a good squirt of penetration oil (which as I type this realise that this might not have been the best idea) and called it a night.

 

[portland_bill]

Without the aid of a safety net or Haynes manual, I’ve got it up on axle stands, handbrake cables are out and unhooked, ABS sensor wires disconnected, bottom shock bolts free, the hinge bracket to body bolts are free.

All that remains to do is get the brake lines undone. However, a quick try suggest those might be the worst bit to deal with. It looks like it would be better to disconnect where the flexi hose joins the main hard line on the body. The bracket is very fragile. I’ve given them a good squirt of penetration oil (which as I type this realise that this might not have been the best idea) and called it a night.

Whilst the brake pipes are going to fight, the hub studs will fight harder.
Access to them is tight, and the nuts rust on. Once the axle is off, an impact wrench is helpful. (I didn't have one when I did mine) Some nuts will eventually come off, half of my studs came out, nut firmly attached. I got a full set of studs and nuts from Shop4Parts. I replaced all but one stud, that absolutely refused to come out, but the threads were fine after the nut had succumbed. New hardware makes it so much nicer to refit.

The front pivot bushes need to be torqued up in their normal rest position. This is challenging, as having the vehicle weight on them is difficult to achieve. Make a careful note of the angle of the mounting brackets, and set them the same. Getting a torque wrench to the pivot on the vehicle is tight.

The original bushes are rubber. The replacement axle will come with strange hybrid rubber/nylon things. They work, but the suspension is noticeably harsher, and noisier.

 

[jrkitching]

Good for you for taking this on - that's another Panda saved!

It's not a difficult job per se - it would be almost trivial on a brand new car - it's dealing with the corroded nuts, bolts and fittings that's the hard part. A Haynes manual wouldn't be that much help with this. It'll just say "...undo the bolts securing the...", and that's pretty obvious anyway.

The important thing not to do (more for the future after the job is done) is not to jack the car on the beam itself - this can distort it and put the rear tracking out of alignment.

 

[WyreWheels]

Good for you for taking this on - that's another Panda saved!

It's not a difficult job per se - it would be almost trivial on a brand new car - it's dealing with the corroded nuts, bolts and fittings that's the hard part. A Haynes manual wouldn't be that much help with this. It'll just say "...undo the bolts securing the...", and that's pretty obvious anyway.

The important thing not to do (more for the future after the job is done) is not to jack the car on the beam itself - this can distort it and put the rear tracking out of alignment.

When I got under it, I noticed a distinct bend in the beam’s crossmember and avoided using it. I’m tempted to get something stuck on the new beam warning against it!

 

[WyreWheels]

Whilst the brake pipes are going to fight, the hub studs will fight harder.
Access to them is tight, and the nuts rust on. Once the axle is off, an impact wrench is helpful. (I didn't have one when I did mine) Some nuts will eventually come off, half of my studs came out, nut firmly attached. I got a full set of studs and nuts from Shop4Parts. I replaced all but one stud, that absolutely refused to come out, but the threads were fine after the nut had succumbed. New hardware makes it so much nicer to refit.

The front pivot bushes need to be torqued up in their normal rest position. This is challenging, as having the vehicle weight on them is difficult to achieve. Make a careful note of the angle of the mounting brackets, and set them the same. Getting a torque wrench to the pivot on the vehicle is tight.

The original bushes are rubber. The replacement axle will come with strange hybrid rubber/nylon things. They work, but the suspension is noticeably harsher, and noisier.

Thanks for the further info. I did have an “oh sh..” moment when the hinge plate moved, but was relived when I saw the marks left behind.

I’ll sit the car on some motorhome levelling ramps (I’ve never owned a motorhome ) for the final torquing up.

 

[jrkitching]

You may find that there's a bit of wriggle room with the bolts securing the beam to the chassis. Before you do the final tightening, try to position the beam so that the rear wheels track parallel with the centreline of the car. This will minimise uneven tyre wear, one of the car's traditional achilles heels.

I’m tempted to get something stuck on the new beam warning against it!

Fiat did in fact stick just such a label on the beam when the car was new. Didn't stop some garages from jacking it there anyway.

This is one of the reasons why I favour taking just the wheels to the fitters at tyre change time.

 

[WyreWheels]

Well, the brake pipes are a serious problem. There’s no way they are coming undone at the body end.

The nearside is solid, the offside is also solid, but the clip is broken that holds it to to the hinge plate so the whole lot is moving about within it.

Two days of penetrating spray has done nothing.

I did think about disconnecting at the cylinder and lifting the whole lot up and out of the way, but the rubber hoses don’t slide out of the locating tabs, they are through them.

I’ve no idea what to do.

 

[irc]

That's not unusual. I usually disconnect them at the joins under the passenger seat and replace with new pipe. Those joins are rarely corroded as they are protected by a plastic shield.

 

[WyreWheels]

That's not unusual. I usually disconnect them at the joins under the passenger seat and replace with new pipe. Those joins are rarely corroded as they are protected by a plastic shield.

Right, I’ve noticed the cover so will investigate there tomorrow - I’ve given up struggling and swearing for tonight. Thanks for the info.

 

[Dan at Adrian Flux]

Hi.
If you have any issues with insurance at for any suspension changes then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.

 

[DaveMcT]

DO NOT TRY TO TURN THE FLARE NUT

Put a plastic bag under the brake fluid reservoir cap. Cut one brake hose rubber about 1/2 way along. Hold the flare nut so it cannot turn and use a suitable spanner to spin the hose off the nut.

Use gas lighter to warm the flare nut. Just enough to soften the plastic coating. Rub some anti seize around the brake pipe flare and refit the hose fragment. Plug the hose end to stop fluid dripping. Clean off the excess anti seize and paint the now bare metal.

Repeat at other side.

Get braided hoses made to run from the under body flare nut through to the brake. It's a bit more cost but so much easier. Use anti-sieze on all stainless threads.

 

[WyreWheels]

Hi.
If you have any issues with insurance at for any suspension changes then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.

I'm keeping it standard.

 

[WyreWheels]

Joy of joys, after much swearing some of which must have been new swear words, I have got the brake hoses off the body mounted brake lines.

I’ve come in feeling happy and will take the beam off the car at the weekend, Preston North End awaits.

 

[WyreWheels]

After a disappointing but totally predictable 3-1 defeat to Oxford Utd last night, I’ve channeled my frustration on the Panda this morning.

It’s finally out and the risk it posed to anyone in it is quite sobering, bearing in mind it had a “no advisories” MOT six months ago The rubber bushes are pretty KO’d too.

Hubs came off surprisingly easily despite the crud. I’ll buy new studs and nuts for those and probably for the beam to hinge plate.

I’m not touching the hubs at all, they will go back on as is.

It a proper work out!