General Shop4parts

[Popitinpete]

Hi panda peeps, just having a look on panda 169 bits on shop4parts, I notice they list a 2003 to 2009 but also a 169 from 2009 to 2011. What's the main difference? Spec? Engines etc etc?
Are the 2009 to 2011 recognised by the seats changing from funky colour coded ones to the more subtle black seats?

 

[koalar]

Coil packs and cams and covers are different around 2009

Gearbox’s are the same and swappable but the ratios keep changing.

Can’t say I have noticed any trim differences. That’s not to say there isn’t any

Starters are the same as are the suspension arms

But Spring rates are stiffer on a 2010 cars I have had. Hard to know if that’s a 2009 upgrade as Fiat have shed loads of different rates 1.1 1.2 aircon and so on


13” wheels aren’t the most common any more

 

[Popitinpete]

Coil packs and cams and covers are different around 2009

Gearbox’s are the same and swappable but the ratios keep changing.

Can’t say I have noticed any trim differences. That’s not to say there isn’t any

Starters are the same as are the suspension arms

But Spring rates are stiffer on a 2010 cars I have had. Hard to know if that’s a 2009 upgrade as Fiat have shed loads of different rates 1.1 1.2 aircon and so on


13” wheels aren’t the most common any more

It just seems strange to list the 2009 to 2011 169 as a separate or different 'model', if all that is different to the 2003 to 2009 models is subtle differences like spring rates, variable cam etc etc I don't see the need for listing it as '2009 to 2011'. Probably lots more changes or upgrades than appears to the naked eye.

 

[DaveMcT]

Fiat are famous for not changing anything they can avoid changing. e.g. The rear hub spindles have not changed since at least the Mk1 Uno and quite probably long before then. The Panda 169, later Panda and 500 all use the same basic rear axle. The later versions use a wider hub spindle bracket and add an anti roll bar, but everything else is the same.

100HP is an exception, but even then an "ordinary" axle can be modded to suit.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Our 1.2 Panda dynamic eco is a 2010 169 and, in addition to the normal services, I've done a lot of work to the front suspension and brakes. Also renewed the cam belt and water pump and the metal water pipe that runs along the front of the block. There's other stuff too but I've just forgotten what right at this minute. Everything I've bought for her so far has been the same as that for the earlier 2003 to 2009 model. In fact the thermostat listed on their website was the one for the later 69 hp engine and I was suspicious about that so I rang them and they were able to put me right. In fact it's well worth a ring for anything you're not sure of. I find them very helpful and only too ready to take some time to be sure they are supplying you with the right parts.

 

[timmycm850]

03 to 09 were the higher road tax rates.
09 to 11 were the cheaper euro 6 engined cars with lower tax rates

 

[timmycm850]

note the inclusion of the word eco on the post 09 cars

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

03 to 09 were the higher road tax rates.
09 to 11 were the cheaper euro 6 engined cars with lower tax rates

Absolutely, but I think the "higher road tax" versions continued concurrently? In fact there seems to be virtually no difference mechanically between the engines fitted to the earlier vehicles (I'm talking the 169 model of course) and those produced from 2009 branded as "Eco". I believe the improvements which tipped the emissions over into the £30 tax bracket were very minor, as the emissions were only a tad away from it anyway, and consisted of low viscosity engine oil and low rolling resistance tyres etc. It wasn't until the VVT 69hp engine came in (which was fitted to about the last year's production of the 169? - Panda My Life being one such - that any recognizable mechanical differences were evident.

JRK our moderator and others might like to comment to further clarify? All I can say is that I've not yet found a spare needed for our Panda which was different to parts for the earlier, non Eco, cars.

 

[Popitinpete]

Absolutely, but I think the "higher road tax" versions continued concurrently? In fact there seems to be virtually no difference mechanically between the engines fitted to the earlier vehicles (I'm talking the 169 model of course) and those produced from 2009 branded as "Eco". I believe the improvements which tipped the emissions over into the £30 tax bracket were very minor, as the emissions were only a tad away from it anyway, and consisted of low viscosity engine oil and low rolling resistance tyres etc. It wasn't until the VVT 69hp engine came in (which was fitted to about the last year's production of the 169? - Panda My Life being one such - that any recognizable mechanical differences were evident.

JRK our moderator and others might like to comment to further clarify? All I can say is that I've not yet found a spare needed for our Panda which was different to parts for the earlier, non Eco, cars.

That's what I thought, £30 tax was on offer on pre 2009 cars I thought

 

[DaveMcT]

My wife has a 2007 1.2-60. Road tax is £30.

 

[jrkitching]

JRK our moderator and others might like to comment to further clarify?

The Euro6 engine was never fitted to the 169; that didn't come until well into the 312 era.

The £30RFL Eco models of the 169 used the 60HP Euro4 until late summer 2010, then the 69HP VVT Euro5 until the end of production. Most important difference is the Euro5 is an interference engine; the Euro4 is cambelt safe. Also the thermostat and coil packs aren't interchangeable between the two versions.

Not all 1.2's made the £30 RFL cut; the Eleganza and 4x4 remained in the higher band until the end of production; the alloy wheels and wider tyres on the Eleganza added just enough extra resistance to push it over the limit. The 1.4 100HP obviously never came close.

I don't think the Eleganza ever got the Euro5 engine, but when they started fitting it to the 1.2 Eco, the slight increase in efficiency (on paper at least) meant that Fiat could fit alloy wheels as standard to the Dynamic and still make the £30 RFL cut.

Also the 1.1 was never produced in Euro5 form; the last of the 169 Actives are Euro5 and got the 1.2 engine.

IMHO the Euro4 1.2 was the best engine of the lot; it's more flexible then the 69HP Euro 5, and actually makes more power & torque below 3500rpm. The Euro4 Dynamic Ecos, with remote locking and A/C as standard, could be bought new in the day for around £6600 and might just possibly be the best value for money car Fiat have ever made. Many have been well looked after, and those are still worth buying today.

 

[Popitinpete]

The Euro6 engine was never fitted to the 169; that didn't come until well into the 312 era.

Eco models of the 169 used the 60HP Euro4 until late summer 2010, then the 69HP VVT Euro5 until the end of production. Most important difference is the Euro5 is an interference engine; the Euro4 is cambelt safe. Also the thermostat and coil packs aren't interchangeable between the two versions.

Not all 1.2's made the £30 RFL cut; the Eleganza and 4x4 remained in the higher band until the end of production; the alloy wheels and wider tyres on the Eleganza added just enough extra resistance to push it over the limit. The 1.4 100HP obviously never came close.

I don't think the Eleganza ever got the Euro5 engine, but when they started fitting it to the 1.2 Eco, the slight increase in efficiency (on paper at least) meant that Fiat could fit alloy wheels as standard to the Dynamic and still make the £30 RFL cut.

Also the 1.1 was never produced in Euro5 form; the last of the 169 Actives got the 1.2 engine.

IMHO the Euro4 1.2 was the best engine of the lot; it's more flexible then the 69HP Euro 5, and actually makes more power & torque below 3500rpm. The Euro4 Dynamic Ecos, with remote locking and A/C as standard, could be bought new in the day for around £6600 and might just possibly be the best value for money car Fiat have ever made.

So the shop4parts listing of 169's of 2003 to 2009 and the separate listing of 2009 on to 2011 are not really major changes, just spec, trim and euro ratings, ie from euro4 to euro5?

 

[jrkitching]

The Euro5 engine is significantly different from the Euro4; many of the engine parts won't be interchangeable. But that change was in 2010, not 2009.

In any event, some part specifications will have changed over the production run and not all of the factors websites are all that accurate. S4P are better than most, and if you telephone with the VIN, they'll normally be able to sort things out. If shopping at the factors and you have more options than clarity, you can always buy both and return the one you don't need (or take the old part with you, if that's practical).

 

[Popitinpete]

The Euro5 engine is significantly different from the Euro4; many of the engine parts won't be interchangeable. But that change was in 2010, not 2009.

In any event, some part specifications will have changed over the production run and not all of the factors websites are all that accurate. S4P are better than most, and if you telephone with the VIN, they'll normally be able to sort things out. If shopping at the factors and you have more options than clarity, you can always buy both and return the one you don't need (or take the old part with you, if that's practical).

Yes most VVT euro 5 parts are not interchangeable with euro 4. The shop4parts listing of 2009 to 2011 is probably listing the euro 5 cars 2010 on for clarity.

 

[jrkitching]

Yes most VVT euro 5 parts won't fit onto euro 4. The shop4parts listing are probably listing the euro 5 cars then 2010 on

The fact that the otherwise near identical 500 used the 69HP VVT engine from launch in 2008 adds to the confusion. Even more confusingly, the 500 wasn't actually homologated to Euro5 until 2010, so the early 500's are technically Euro4, despite having a 69HP VVT engine that's mechanically identical to the Euro5 (and meets all the Euro5 emission requirements).

It's not surprising folks sometimes end up with the wrong parts.

 

[Popitinpete]

The fact that the otherwise near identical 500 used the 69HP VVT engine from launch in 2008 adds to the confusion. Even more confusingly, the 500 wasn't actually homologated to Euro5 until 2010, so the early 500's are technically Euro4, despite having a 69HP VVT engine that's mechanically identical to the Euro5 (and meets all the Euro5 emission requirements).

It's not surprising folks sometimes end up with the wrong parts.

That is confusing to say the least especially as you say from launch in 2008 the 500 had the euro 5 a lot of chopping and changing generally for all manufacturers around 2009/2010 with the new euro 5 coming in. I often wondered why the sales person was eager to sell me my 60 plate Vito in 2010, it was euro 4 so he wanted to get rid of old stock to make way for the euro 5 stock.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The Euro6 engine was never fitted to the 169; that didn't come until well into the 312 era.

The £30RFL Eco models of the 169 used the 60HP Euro4 until late summer 2010, then the 69HP VVT Euro5 until the end of production. Most important difference is the Euro5 is an interference engine; the Euro4 is cambelt safe. Also the thermostat and coil packs aren't interchangeable between the two versions.

Not all 1.2's made the £30 RFL cut; the Eleganza and 4x4 remained in the higher band until the end of production; the alloy wheels and wider tyres on the Eleganza added just enough extra resistance to push it over the limit. The 1.4 100HP obviously never came close.

I don't think the Eleganza ever got the Euro5 engine, but when they started fitting it to the 1.2 Eco, the slight increase in efficiency (on paper at least) meant that Fiat could fit alloy wheels as standard to the Dynamic and still make the £30 RFL cut.

Also the 1.1 was never produced in Euro5 form; the last of the 169 Actives are Euro5 and got the 1.2 engine.

IMHO the Euro4 1.2 was the best engine of the lot; it's more flexible then the 69HP Euro 5, and actually makes more power & torque below 3500rpm. The Euro4 Dynamic Ecos, with remote locking and A/C as standard, could be bought new in the day for around £6600 and might just possibly be the best value for money car Fiat have ever made. Many have been well looked after, and those are still worth buying today.

Thanks JR. That's pretty well definitive!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes most VVT euro 5 parts are not interchangeable with euro 4. The shop4parts listing of 2009 to 2011 is probably listing the euro 5 cars 2010 on for clarity.

Yes, you have to be a little careful if you're ordering parts in this narrow band of years - 2009 to 2011 on the S4p website. If in doubt phone them with the VIN, as suggested by our MOD JRK. They really are very helpful and patient people. The VVT engine is easily identified if you look just behind and to the right of the oil filler cap on the VVT there is a smallish barrel shaped solenoid with it's electric wire, screwed into the cam cover (this is the solenoid which controls oil flow to the VVT sprocket). The non VVT engine does not have this solenoid valve but has a female hex plug screwed into the hole to stop the oil gushing out.

I'll try to attach a picture I took some time ago of mine which only has the blanking plug as it's a Euro4. The end of the little yellow screwdriver is pointing to it.

 

[Popitinpete]

Yes, you have to be a little careful if you're ordering parts in this narrow band of years - 2009 to 2011 on the S4p website. If in doubt phone them with the VIN, as suggested by our MOD JRK. They really are very helpful and patient people. The VVT engine is easily identified if you look just behind and to the right of the oil filler cap on the VVT there is a smallish barrel shaped solenoid with it's electric wire, screwed into the cam cover (this is the solenoid which controls oil flow to the VVT sprocket). The non VVT engine does not have this solenoid valve but has a female hex plug screwed into the hole to stop the oil gushing out.

I'll try to attach a picture I took some time ago of mine which only has the blanking plug as it's a Euro4. The end of the little yellow screwdriver is pointing to it.

Yes as mentioned by koala other subtle changes were made to the last 169's 2009 to 2011, like different damping rates for springs etc etc

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes, you have to be a little careful if you're ordering parts in this narrow band of years - 2009 to 2011 on the S4p website. If in doubt phone them with the VIN, as suggested by our MOD JRK. They really are very helpful and patient people. The VVT engine is easily identified if you look just behind and to the right of the oil filler cap on the VVT there is a smallish barrel shaped solenoid with it's electric wire, screwed into the cam cover (this is the solenoid which controls oil flow to the VVT sprocket). The non VVT engine does not have this solenoid valve but has a female hex plug screwed into the hole to stop the oil gushing out.

I'll try to attach a picture I took some time ago of mine which only has the blanking plug as it's a Euro4. The end of the little yellow screwdriver is pointing to it.

PS to this post. Have you all noticed that I've finally got round to fitting the nice new breather hose I bought from S4p over a year ago!