Panda 2012+ Servicing my 2014 panda

[jrkitching]

The cambelt change procedure is non-standard and requires special tools; folks often get this wrong, which leads to running problems and warning lights; independent garages are some of the worst culprits, because they just assume that it'll be straightforward and are out of their depth when they find that things aren't that simple. The rest of the normal service items aren't complicated on the 1.2.

If you need the cambelt changed, going online to find a mechanic you've never used before and choosing the cheapest quote you can get from a referral agent is not likely to end well.

Jock is one of the most respected members of our forum; I'm sorry if the OP was upset by that comment, because I'm absolutely certain that no offense was ever intended. I know money is tight for many of us right now, but getting a full service and belt change nowadays for £400 is a stretch if the work is to be done properly; perhaps better to budget a little more and go somewhere with specific marque experience. Pay once, get it done right. The garages section of this forum would be a good place to start looking.

 

[ZaphodB]

Otherwise no point to it?

I had to add a question mark to avoid making it a statement

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had to add a question mark to avoid making it a statement

Being somewhat dyslexic the significance is lost on me. Of course we didn't know about dyslexia when I was young, I was just categorized as "thick"

 

[ZaphodB]

Being somewhat dyslexic the significance is lost on me. Of course we didn't know about dyslexia when I was young, I was just categorized as "thick"

To avoid a potentially libellous comment

I could say (for instance):

Pugglt drinks beer all day and night

or

Pugglt drinks beer all day and night? (like asking the question doesn't he ?)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Otherwise no point to it?

Sorry, still lost on me. What occurred to me having read the first comment, was that there would be no point in the existence of the referring party if they were not being reimbursed for their services - ie finding a customer for garage? All too subtle for me.

 

[ZaphodB]

Sorry, still lost on me. What occurred to me having read the first comment, was that there would be no point in the existence of the referring party if they were not being reimbursed for their services - ie finding a customer for garage? All too subtle for me.

I find these referral places a bit superfluous in 2025 (If you can google, google, and go direct based on reviews)

and I've just found out that Click mechanic rake out 20% of the job for themselves !!!!

Does it cost anything to join the network as a mechanic? | Support Centre | ClickMechanic

Ouch !

Just been reading some of their lower end reviews too

 

[Panda IIs]

I find these referral places a bit superfluous in 2025 (If you can google, google, and go direct based on reviews)

and I've just found out that Click mechanic rake out 20% of the job for themselves !!!!

Does it cost anything to join the network as a mechanic? | Support Centre | ClickMechanic

Ouch !

Just been reading some of their lower end reviews too

And in what world doesn't the "click mechanic" finders fee not get added back into every registered mechanic's overhead rate?? So all get to share the cost.

Another parasitic drain...

 

[AB100]

Sorry, still lost on me. What occurred to me having read the first comment, was that there would be no point in the existence of the referring party if they were not being reimbursed for their services - ie finding a customer for garage? All too subtle for me.

Let's get back to manual skills but before that, let's all spare a moment for anyone with a Ford/Vauxhall etc that has a wet-belt and feel their pain at paying £1600 and more for a cambelt change.

Anyhoo - have you ever changed a cambelt by:

a) longitudinally slicing it half whilst still on
b) slipping the new belt half-on
c) clipping the old belt free
d) pushing the new belt all the way?

 

[ZaphodB]

Sorry, still lost on me. What occurred to me having read the first comment, was that there would be no point in the existence of the referring party if they were not being reimbursed for their services - ie finding a customer for garage? All too subtle for me.

I find these referral places a bit superfluous in 2025

Anyhoo - have you ever changed a cambelt by:
a) longitudinally slicing it half whilst still on
b) slipping the new belt half-on
c) clipping the old belt free
d) pushing the new belt all the way?

Who needs timing belt tools ?...... | Abarth 500

Just seen a instagram short that, within seconds , blew my mind....... Guy is replacing a toothed timing belt, slices the belt 50/50 longitudinally, then cuts 90 degrees to that to remove 1/2 the belt....... Then slips the new belt on..... once on, cuts the other 1/2 belt off, job done ...

www.fiatforum.com

But you can't change the water pump or the tensioner that way

 

[Panda IIs]

I find these referral places a bit superfluous in 2025

Who needs timing belt tools ?...... | Abarth 500

Just seen a instagram short that, within seconds , blew my mind....... Guy is replacing a toothed timing belt, slices the belt 50/50 longitudinally, then cuts 90 degrees to that to remove 1/2 the belt....... Then slips the new belt on..... once on, cuts the other 1/2 belt off, job done ...

www.fiatforum.com

But you can't change the water pump or the tensioner that way

I was about to say that! On my Volvo (red block) it has the "old school" water pump driven by the aux. belts but I would still want to do the tensioner, on that car you could probably hold the belt tension with some cable ties and sneak the tensioner off and replace but aside from the anxiety of stuff moving I would be way more comfortable with a timing tool set in the first place - takes away a lot of stress

 

[jrkitching]

I would be way more comfortable with a timing tool set in the first place

I would be way more comfortable with an engine with a solid camshaft (no VVT), keyed sprockets and fixed timing marks. No need for any tools!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I find these referral places a bit superfluous in 2025 (If you can google, google, and go direct based on reviews)

and I've just found out that Click mechanic rake out 20% of the job for themselves !!!!

Does it cost anything to join the network as a mechanic? | Support Centre | ClickMechanic

Ouch !

Just been reading some of their lower end reviews too

I think it's difficult to beat a personal recommendation.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Let's get back to manual skills but before that, let's all spare a moment for anyone with a Ford/Vauxhall etc that has a wet-belt and feel their pain at paying £1600 and more for a cambelt change.

It's just silly stuff, isn't it. I think I read somewhere that Ford are being quite proactive though I don't know what they are doing.

Anyhoo - have you ever changed a cambelt by:

a) longitudinally slicing it half whilst still on
b) slipping the new belt half-on
c) clipping the old belt free
d) pushing the new belt all the way?

I've seen the Fuzz Townsend video and found it very interesting. However, as Zaphod points out, you can't really do the water pump this way and I'd always change both tensioner and water pump myself so have never been tempted to try it.

 

[ZaphodB]

I think I read somewhere that Ford are being quite proactive though I don't know what they are doing.

I don't think they know what they're doing either , putting a wet belt in there in the first place

In any engine for that matter

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I don't think they know what they're doing either , putting a wet belt in there in the first place

In any engine for that matter

I've read quite a bit about them and although there seems to have been quite a bit of development work on both the belt materials and lubricants, I wouldn't buy one myself - especially not a used one. I can see the advantages in terms of quiet running and reduction in friction thus enhancing environmental factors and efficiency. For me though, the obvious "Elephant in the room" is that great stress is laid upon emphasising adherence to both parts and oil used and sticking strictly to service intervals and recommendations for "abnormal" use - like repeated short journey use. Which calls for tighter limits on time/mileage. We all know people like us will do our best to follow this advice but there are many who won't. A chain or "dry" belt will struggle on for some time when abused and you'll likely hear warning noises, especially with chain installations. But the wet belt gives no warning whilst quietly sabotaging the lubrication system including the oil feed to the turbo. So a wet belt failure usually, I've read, takes a whole load of other components with it and forces a comprehensive internal clean up of the engine. The question I'd then be asking myself is, did I actually get all those little fibres out of every nook and cranny?

Anyone with experience of these engines long term? It would be great if you could comment for us.

 

[KPat]

Stellantis have a problem as well. Apparently wet belts are to "reduce emissions and increase efficiency." At the expense of engine life


Stellantis is offering compensation to customers affected by technical issues with some of its PureTech petrol engines.

An online portal was launched earlier this year, for some European customers, and has now been expanded to accept claims for UK vehicles.

The new scheme applies to vehicles with 1.0-litre and 1.2-litre PureTech petrol engines from Citroen, DS Automobiles, Vauxhall and Peugeot.

Claims are being considered for customers who suffered expenses in relation to excessive oil consumption and/or premature timing belt failure between January 1, 2022, and December 31, 2024.


Conditions for compensation include, that services related to excessive oil consumption and/or premature degradation of the timing belt must have complied with the manufacturers’ maintenance plan and been performed by any automotive professional, while both diagnosis and repair must have been conducted through the authorised network.

Stellantis extended the warranty on previous generations of PureTech engines due to excessive oil consumption and premature degradation of the timing belt, covering 100% of the costs for up to 10 years or 112,000 miles for both parts and labour, under certain conditions.

The use of 'wet belts' was introduced by some manufacturers to reduce emissions and increase efficiency, but the longevity of these powertrains was overestimated.



Because the rubber belt is in constant contact with the oil, it can cause the belt to degrade more quickly, especially if the wrong type of oil is used. As a result, it may not last as long as the manufacturer's handbook states it should.

Wet timing belts can also cause another form of engine failure: one that is unique to this type of belt. As the wet belt gradually picks up wear and tear over time, small particles come off the belt and are picked up by the oil. Because the belt and the oil bath are inside the engine, they are then circulated throughout the rest of the engine system. This can block or damage crucial engine parts and cause blockages in the system that prevent the engine oil from circulating, both of which will lead to engine failure.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Stellantis have a problem as well. Apparently wet belts are to "reduce emissions and increase efficiency." At the expense of engine life


Stellantis is offering compensation to customers affected by technical issues with some of its PureTech petrol engines.

An online portal was launched earlier this year, for some European customers, and has now been expanded to accept claims for UK vehicles.

The new scheme applies to vehicles with 1.0-litre and 1.2-litre PureTech petrol engines from Citroen, DS Automobiles, Vauxhall and Peugeot.

Claims are being considered for customers who suffered expenses in relation to excessive oil consumption and/or premature timing belt failure between January 1, 2022, and December 31, 2024.


Conditions for compensation include, that services related to excessive oil consumption and/or premature degradation of the timing belt must have complied with the manufacturers’ maintenance plan and been performed by any automotive professional, while both diagnosis and repair must have been conducted through the authorised network.

Stellantis extended the warranty on previous generations of PureTech engines due to excessive oil consumption and premature degradation of the timing belt, covering 100% of the costs for up to 10 years or 112,000 miles for both parts and labour, under certain conditions.

The use of 'wet belts' was introduced by some manufacturers to reduce emissions and increase efficiency, but the longevity of these powertrains was overestimated.



Because the rubber belt is in constant contact with the oil, it can cause the belt to degrade more quickly, especially if the wrong type of oil is used. As a result, it may not last as long as the manufacturer's handbook states it should.

Wet timing belts can also cause another form of engine failure: one that is unique to this type of belt. As the wet belt gradually picks up wear and tear over time, small particles come off the belt and are picked up by the oil. Because the belt and the oil bath are inside the engine, they are then circulated throughout the rest of the engine system. This can block or damage crucial engine parts and cause blockages in the system that prevent the engine oil from circulating, both of which will lead to engine failure.

Thanks very much KPat. That's exactly what I've come to believe. It's the fact these little fibres get everywhere that would worry me if I owned one so it's not just going to block up the oil pickup strainer in the sump but also, potentially, anywhere else in the engine that is a restriction - so stuff like the filter screen in a VVT solenoid. The fine mesh filter in the oil supply to the turbo. Piston spray jets (that spray oil onto the underside of the piston crown to cool it - used increasingly in turboed engines). Anywhere in the engine where a restrictor jet is used to limit oil flow, for instance sometimes in the camshaft oil supply. I'm thinking also, what about main and big end and, to a lesser extent probably, camshaft bearings. Reduced oil flow to these, typically soft metal type bearing surfaces, is likely to cause excess wear and maybe scoring but maybe not enough to cause a noticeable symptom, like knock for instance. I'm imagining the scenario where the belt sheds and causes a problem by blocking something or partially blocking something - say a turbo fails because of it. The turbo supply is found to be contaminated so a new turbo and supply pipe is fitted. Because of the known problems, the sump is dropped and it and the crankcase thoroughly washed out, maybe even a new oil pickup strainer fitted. The whole thing, at considerable expense, is reassembled with a new belt and tested for oil pressure which is found to be "good" or "within acceptable parameters". No-one has dropped the main/big end caps and the oil pressure is now acceptable but at some unpredictable time in the future, maybe a few months, maybe much longer, but appreciably sooner than you'd expect if the engine was undamaged, the big ends start rattling.

Not for me thanks. It's all just to unpredictable.

 

[jrkitching]

It's the fact these little fibres get everywhere that would worry me if I owned one so it's not just going to block up the oil pickup strainer in the sump but also, potentially, anywhere else in the engine that is a restriction - so stuff like the filter screen in a VVT solenoid. The fine mesh filter in the oil supply to the turbo.

Can you just imagine what a nightmare this would be in a TwinAir?

At least they had the sense to use a chain for this one.

 

[steveras57]

dont forget! Save at the beginning!- spend x10 at the end!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Can you just imagine what a nightmare this would be in a TwinAir?

At least they had the sense to use a chain for this one.

It's a strange one isn't it. The laudable search for infinitesimal savings takes it down a "rabbit hole" which, in the long run, costs far more, in terms of monetary savings environmental pollution and customer goodwill than the net gain. My heart bleeds for the development engineers and the disappointment they must feel but even more so for anyone experiencing problems.