Technical Seicento sump query

[Seamus2012]

I am just fitting a new sump to my 2002 1.1 Seicento.

I have the old sump off and on fitting the new one I have noticed on the mains cap on the sump that there are 2 indents low down on the half moon cut out.

It is not apparent on the old sump and cannot see any corresponding cut outs on the engine.

Is there a reason for these or should I just knock them out so that it is a smooth fit to the bearing cap.

Thanks for any help. Hoping to get this fitted tomorrow.

 

[Thefox]

Does it look damaged or made with those indents.?
Can you upload pics.??

 

[Seamus2012]

Thanks for the reply.

It is made with those indents. You can see them quite clearly in this link and magnify the journal end. It is the same as the other end.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351272957703?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Seamus2012]

It is shown more clearly in this link if you zoom in

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-PAND...583726?hash=item27ca68b2ee:g:UDwAAOSw9r1V9-FB

Also I bought some adhesive. Is this sufficient to do one sump seal?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Pan-S...icento&hash=item5d68c77078:g:Og0AAOSwYIxX6p8G

Thanks

 

[Seamus2012]

Just to clarify here is a better picture with the points circled in red

 

[varesecrazy]

I am just fitting a new sump to my 2002 1.1 Seicento.

I have the old sump off and on fitting the new one I have noticed on the mains cap on the sump that there are 2 indents low down on the half moon cut out.

It is not apparent on the old sump and cannot see any corresponding cut outs on the engine.

Is there a reason for these or should I just knock them out so that it is a smooth fit to the bearing cap.

Thanks for any help. Hoping to get this fitted tomorrow.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/444506-miserable-mot-day.html

post #20 on..

 

[Seamus2012]

Thanks for the link.

Buried deep within one of the links in that thread is mention of the notches. Quote from that thread

I had the same issue, fitted it and refitted it again but still leaked. On the third attempt, I noticed two little notches on the both radius (either end) on the new sump (cheap ebay purchase) of which I managed the flatten off with a pair pliers.

There are many mentions of leaking sumps after refitting and maybe many are not aware of these notches.

 

[cc1]

The notches are not a problem when both surfaces are chemically cleaned. The main issue is whether the baffle in the sump hits the crank main bearing Caps. I have had 2 Hadrian versions that are badly manufactured and do not seat correctly. I had to bend the baffle plate to allow the sump to fit correctly.

 

[Seamus2012]

Thanks - I will have a look tomorrow when it should be drier. Think though it is the notches that are the problem.

 

[cc1]

The notches are there to help seal the sump pan. The sump pan may have tabs on each end to aid alignment, or hinder?
Make sure you wipe the block and sump pan mating surfaces with thinners or Isopropyl Alcohol before assembly.

 

[Seamus2012]

I have it all back together and fluids in but cannot get it to start, in fact it will hardly turn over.

Charged the battery (10 mths old) - no difference, nor with jump leads.

Tried a new battery and the same.

Wondered if the sump might be binding on the pulley or flywheel but cannot find and evidence of this.

Can't think what else might cause a problem just changing the sump. This job has been on ramps for at least 6 weeks due to weather and being of no urgency.

Any ideas please. Thought about getting a code reader but don't know if that would help.

 

[dadandlad]

Strange problem indeed
Have you disturbed the main earth lead ?
Try cleaning the starter motor connections as it sounds as if it is starter motor related
Other things to try
Will the engine turn over freely by hand ,maybe remove spark plugs and try
The sump would have to be jammed hard against another component to stop the engine turning over on the starter and would have thought you would have spotted this on assembly
I don't think a code reader will help you with the problem in hand but they are a useful addition to your toolbox
Let us know how you go on

 

[portland_bill]

I think the little lugs may be there to prevent overtightening. The correct sealant should be quite thick, and these lugs will prevent it all being squeezed out to nothing. If you've flattened them, shouldn't be a problem, if you've not overtightened the bolts.

If it is not turning over, you need to check if you can turn it by hand. If it turns by hand, you are searching for an electrical issue, such as the earth cable fractured. If it won't turn, you may need to drop the sump again and try again to turn it over.

 

[Seamus2012]

Strange problem indeed
Have you disturbed the main earth lead ?
Try cleaning the starter motor connections as it sounds as if it is starter motor related
Other things to try
Will the engine turn over freely by hand ,maybe remove spark plugs and try
The sump would have to be jammed hard against another component to stop the engine turning over on the starter and would have thought you would have spotted this on assembly
I don't think a code reader will help you with the problem in hand but they are a useful addition to your toolbox
Let us know how you go on

Thanks for that.

Put a spanner on the pulley and found that the alternator had seized, at least it would appear so but haven't got it off yet.

Got the mounting bolts loose but cannot undo the adjustment nut. Need to find a way to hold the bolt to stop it from spinning.

Reason for the code reader is that I noticed that the engine management light is on - reckon it must be flagging up the alternator.

 

[Seamus2012]

I think the little lugs may be there to prevent overtightening. The correct sealant should be quite thick, and these lugs will prevent it all being squeezed out to nothing. If you've flattened them, shouldn't be a problem, if you've not overtightened the bolts.

If it is not turning over, you need to check if you can turn it by hand. If it turns by hand, you are searching for an electrical issue, such as the earth cable fractured. If it won't turn, you may need to drop the sump again and try again to turn it over.

Thanks for the help.

Came to the same conclusion about the lugs so left them as they were.

Re fault - see above - alternator seized.