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Technical Sei rockers !!!

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Technical Sei rockers !!!

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bentoonbull

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Joined
Feb 1, 2008
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Location
Hereford
Hi, got the cylinder head of my 1999 Sei 899cc and have been told it's badly warped :(. Needs to be skimmed twice :eek:

Will this be a continous pain in the ass now?? Would a replacement head be less troublesome?

Anyway, main reason for posting, during removal of the head my dad, who's more used to Allegro (OMG), mini engines and other contraptions of the mid 20th century, managed to lose all sorts of bits off the rocker assembly. Having STILL not received my technical CD off Ebay and, being a poor student, unable to afford a Haynes manual, I'm hoping someone can help me with a couple of questions to help me (ok, my dad) rebuild the thing before winter sets in!!!

On each of the actual rocker arms there are little discs, most have a very shallow slot in, like for a screwdriver, but the one that FELL OUT (into the engine itself!! Lucky to be able to get it out or what!) didn't. Are they supposed to fall out?
How are they fitted and how do they stay in place?

Also, there are what appear to be some kind of hydraulic devices (similar operation to hydraulic tappets? Dad's guess!) fitted into the rockers. They can (!) come apart and reveal a tiny spring. One had "fallen" apart and the other my dad decided to dissassemble to see how it worked(!!) So now I have 2 that don't seem to want to go back together. It's almost like the air can't escape and the 2 halves don't want to go back together due to the air compressing and then pushing the 2 halves back apart.
Are they supposed to come apart? How do they go back together??
How are the tappets adjusted and what should the gap be (engine hot/cold??)

Finally, what torque do the rocker bolts tighten up to please?

Many thanks,
Bentoonbull
 
i feel your pain and i am currectly doing the exact same thing, and i am sure rallycinq will give u more details later on.

Once the tappets fallen apart, u might as well get new ones (about 15 quid each), and yes they are hydralic tappets.

On each of the rocker, there is a lock ring (about 50p each from fiat dealer) , once that is in placed, the shim will just slide up then the tappet will slide back up (they may not necessary be stuck on, if u know what i mean ?)

Make sure the lock ring is in placed probably, and the groove for the lock ring is not. And set the preload of each tappet after everything is in place.

My problem is, my tappets keeping poping up through the top .. hope u won't experienence this.

As for the cylinder head, i don't really know what's the best options.



Ming
 
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The head should be OK once skimmed, it may give a wee bit more power too.

Find out why it warped and fix that as a priority.

Tappet preload is set cold, tighten them up until there is no gap, then, the manual says a turn and a half, I tend to err on the side of one turn.

Cheers

D
 
Thanks for the advice, after re-reading your instructions I managed to get some compression! (I had overdone the pre load to start with, did em up finger tight THEN added 1 turn, oops). Got 200, 205, 200 and 220 psi. So, is number 4 a bit high or are the rest low??

I re used the old tappets and it now sounds like a diesel :-( A friendly garage advised some engine flush to get some oil into the tappets but it made no difference. And it's as flat as a fart, no go in it at all. I have ordered a full set of new tappets and new circlips, total cost £35, not too bad! :) Will fit them tomorrow.

Finally, the high temperature warning light is still coming on soon after driving off. The head temperature is measuring 75 - 80deg C so it's not boiling. Could it be a faulty temp sensor? It is a new one! I even had the fan on permanently but it made no difference, it's got a new thermostat too.

Really appreciate the advice so far, thanks,
Ben
 
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ycming said:
hmmm .. where did u order those tappets ???? is that 8 tappets + 8 circlip for 25 quid ??

Is costing me about 12 quid for each tappet...
Click to expand...


Hi, £35, yes, 8 tappets and the circlips. He said the tappets were about 3.50 each and the circlips 69p !! From http://www.fiatparts.co.uk/ in Hereford, I didn't even know they were in Hereford! I started to dial the code and suddenly realised they were local :)
I gave him the chassis number so I hope they're the right parts, I was previously told the tappets were about £15 each so I was surprised too. I'll see tomorrow!

Thanks for the advice Rallycinq, I think it probably is a sensor for a gauge. I've ordered another anyway.
Cheers!
 
ycming said:
could take a picture of the tappet once u get them ?
Click to expand...

Thought it was too good to be true. The chap called me today and admitted he had made a mistake and had ordered the discs and the circlips. The tappets are around £13 each. He said he'd put 2 on order but they wont come until next week:mad:
So, I went looking around the scrappys and found a cinq with the same engine. I have bought the entire head and injection unit for £45. I swapped over the whole rocker and changed a couple of the tappets which were flat with a couple out of mine. All the tappets were apart by about 5mm and I could easily squeeze them up to show about 1mm or less, does that sound right?? A couple were tight together and I couldn't squeeze them at all, I am guessing that's bad??

I think I found the reason why it had no go (yesterday) while I was changing the rockers, the rocker cover was not bolted down tight and it could have been leaking air in under the injector.
Anyway, set the tappets as advised and started her up.
Bugger, still sounded like a diesel. :bang:

The tappets all seemed very loose and thinking I hadn't much to lose I decided to tighten them all by a turn (ish) each.
Put it back together and still not good. Went for a spin and it was very.. err.... delicate to start with. Really didn't want to pull at anything less than 3/4 throttle. I persisted with it for a bit and it started to get better. Certainly pulling a lot better than yesterday anyway. Kept going and even though it was still stuttering now and then it did pull away if you floored it.

Things started to settle a bit and went for a bit of a thrash and after about 2 miles the tappets did start to quieten a little. Maybe one or two filling up?? Anyway, still tapping noticeably but will give it a bit more time. Maybe an oil change???

It still missed a beat every now and then and seemed to baulk at being floored once or twice. Could this be the ECU relearning all the settings for the new head and tappet settings? Does the 16F ecu do this kind of thing or is all the mapping and fueling fixed??

The other bug bear, that damn light. Still glowing and I changed the sensor for the one which came on the Cinq head. What's the chances of it being a similar sensor?? It looks different. I didn't think to look see if the Cinq had a temp gauge fitted. It's definitely not boiling though.

Any comments greatfully received!
Cheers,
Ben
 
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Recently i been thinking the tappet noise is caused by the wee little spring in the tappet being broken to pieces ..

See on each of your rocker, does each of the tappet stay up there or they fall out easily ????

If they fall out, see if u can pull the top part of each tappet apart out by hand, if u can i think the tappet is ****ed (u should see a wee spring inside, that is smashed to bits)

When the tappet is in the gear it should stay in without falling out..

I took a few pics, can't upload them :(, i can send them via e-mail if u want.

And Haynes manual recommended putting a bit of oil i nthe tappet before putting them in.
 
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ycming said:
And Haynes manual recommended putting a bit of oil i nthe tappet before putting them in.
Click to expand...


I like that idea, will give that a go if things don't get better soon!
All the tappets stayed together except for one of the originals which fell apart and one that I pulled apart. The one I pulled apart then didn't want to stay together afterwards. No smashed springs anywhere!
Cheers,
Ben
 
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