Technical Running Temp

[domtheboyo]

First outing in my new 850 Berlina today and had a couple of issues. First one I noticed temp runs above half way. It has an electric fan which is always on too. Not sure how accurate these gauges are but is it normal for them to run fairly hot, even when crusing at 50?

Also, she likes to stall when slowing down at junctions etc and doesn't restart on the button. Starter seems slow but other times fires up immediately so seems intermittent. Could a low battery charge cause this? Also, doesn't always stall so that is also intermittent.

 

[Mike1alike]

No, temperature shown there is not normal. Faulty thermostat stuck partially closed is what you have there, my guess. Or possibly clogged radiator.

 

[bugsymike]

I would go with clogged radiator, especially with older vehicles as the sediment drops to the bottom and block the tubes internally.
My other concern is if this has been going on for some time, coupled with your mention of occasionally starter slow to turn can point to head gasket slow leak. Is there any loss of coolant or condensation /steam from exhaust just after starting?

 

[domtheboyo]

I only got the car today so can't say. Levels are good and no steam/smoke to note. Driven about 30 miles and coolant level has stayed the same. Can the rad be cleaned in sittue? I can't seem to find a replacement so I guess my mechanic could flush/clean It and thermostat is cheap. Not a great start.

 

[bugsymike]

I only got the car today so can't say. Levels are good and no steam/smoke to note. Driven about 30 miles and coolant level has stayed the same. Can the rad be cleaned in sittue? I can't seem to find a replacement so I guess my mechanic could flush/clean It and thermostat is cheap. Not a great start.

If temp consistently once warm runs roughly 3/4 or more up the gauge with even moderate driving, but drops down when very gentle driving or coasting down hills then it does point to some of the rad tubes being blocked so in effect as though you had too small a radiator for the car.
Rad flush chemicals and back flushing with a hose in reverse direction to normal flow with cap off can work in mild cases, but if weak it can result in total rad failure due to the chemicals eating through.
Generally I have seen rads with the top and bottom tanks off on the old style brass radiators that could be repaired and they have shoved rods down the tubes to clear them and resoldered the tanks back on, this is a specialised job that few do these days partly due to plastic and aluminum rads but also due to the poisonous effects of lead work.
As an apprentice I have soldered pipes back in and repaired cracks in radiators but never done the replacement of top and bottom tanks.
There are companies that do this work and can also fit larger cores to radiators for racing etc.

 

[Mike1alike]

Rad flush chemicals and back flushing with a hose in reverse direction to normal flow with cap off can work

Best chemical there is citric acid. Put a solution of distilled water plus citric acid instead of coolant, 100 g of citric acid to 1 litre of water, fiill the cooling system with that and run the engine for about 15 minutes. That would clean all system well. Then get that solution out and flush the system with water to to rinse, then put coolant in. Very important detail: do not put cold liquid in hot engine because that could crack the engine block.

 

[domtheboyo]

Just got back from the garage after having it all checked over and all seems fine. I've just given it an Italian tune up and it hasn't stalled on me so far. Also, the guy I took it to is an American Hot Rod Specialist and we already discussed better cooling options and fabrications he recommends so feeling much better about it

 

[bugsymike]

Just got back from the garage after having it all checked over and all seems fine. I've just given it an Italian tune up and it hasn't stalled on me so far. Also, the guy I took it to is an American Hot Rod Specialist and we already discussed better cooling options and fabrications he recommends so feeling much better about it

Always loved driving them when in for services in early 70s.
Hopefully just stale fuel re stalling and you have blown the cobwebs away.
How about the running hot side?

 

[domtheboyo]

Always loved driving them when in for services in early 70s.
Hopefully just stale fuel re stalling and you have blown the cobwebs away.
How about the running hot side?

It behaved today. He pointed the temperature gun at it and it was perfect, even though the gauge was slightly above half way. There is an electric fan so we turned it off, let it get hot then turned it on and watched the gauge go down. He suggested a better auto fan than having one that stays on all the time. I've driven it about 40miles today and it cut out as I slowed down to some traffic lights. Maybe hot air choking it out or vacuum leak when warmed up? Behaved itself otherwise.

 

[bugsymike]

It behaved today. He pointed the temperature gun at it and it was perfect, even though the gauge was slightly above half way. There is an electric fan so we turned it off, let it get hot then turned it on and watched the gauge go down. He suggested a better auto fan than having one that stays on all the time. I've driven it about 40miles today and it cut out as I slowed down to some traffic lights. Maybe hot air choking it out or vacuum leak when warmed up? Behaved itself otherwise.

No coolant loss?
If not may just be an old partially blocked rad core tubes, I have seen it before, temp just runs 3/4up the gauge.
What temp did his gun show, older vehicles often opened the thermostat around 82 Degrees Centigrade, most modern stuff appears to be around 90 Degrees Centigrade. I tried to find detail but my books don't go back that far, oldest is 1977 although I used to have older in the past and foolishly sold them or discarded them.

 

[bugsymike]

Maybe worth seeing if idle jet needs cleaning re stalling, unless air leak on inlet side somewhere.

 

[timmycm850]

Hi guys. In my experience its great to glush out the radiator. Its also useful to clean the fins of the radiator externally, with the normal fan oil vapour debris gets stuck on the face of the rad in the engine bay side but its difficult to see behind the fan.

The stalling could be caused by a little debris in the idle jet from being stood for a while. Get some mileage under its belt and use up existing fuel down to about 20% tank left and put some super petrol in it, blow out the 0.5mm idle jet with a little air and try it again.

 

[domtheboyo]

Bloody thing has just died on me. Looks like the engine is seized as I can't turn it. Does anyone want to make me an offer on the car who has the skill to rebuild or replace the engine? Not sure I want to spend any more money on it than I already have to buy it!

 

[bugsymike]

That's a shame, it's always worth repairing and even if you just shut it in your garage until the enthusiasm came along.
You remind me of when I had a 1971 London taxi for sale with a sticker in the window , byu the time I had got home from a 70 journey the bloody thing had broken down at least ten times due to fuel blockage in the injection side.
When I got home my wife said there was a bloke interested in buying it, he had done the 200 plus mile trip up to Birmingham in the time it took me to get home, I spoke to him and said , if you were here now I would give to the ******* thing.
Don't give up, you will always regret losing it.

 

[Mike1alike]

Bloody thing has just died on me. Looks like the engine is seized as I can't turn it.

So there was cooling issues...
But... what does it mean exactly you can't turn it? How did you try to turn it?
As Bugsy says, maybe you can get it to work!

 

[domtheboyo]

No big bang or anything. Just shut off. Oil level is just below half. If I put it in gear and rock it, the sprocket doesn't even move. Alternator has slight movement but I didn't remove the belt and try.

 

[Mike1alike]

No big bang or anything. Just shut off. Oil level is just below half. If I put it in gear and rock it, the sprocket doesn't even move. Alternator has slight movement but I didn't remove the belt and try.

Maybe is not that bad as you thought...

 

[domtheboyo]

Red light came on dash (left one) just before it stopped so maybe no oil pressure? Not sure what the 4 dash warning lights mean. Haynes manual doesn't appear to tell me either.

 

[bugsymike]

My thoughts are that it was running hot inspite of your mechanic saying temp. was OK due to partially blocked rad and maybe you didn't notice it in time.
if the sprocket doesn't move at all I suspect a piston seize, so you are into an engine out and rebuild. It is a fairly simple little engine so even if you cannot do it your self I am sure there are plenty of workshops that can.
I assume it gradually "ran out of steam" and stopped turning so the generator light came on rather than the oil light, as usually if engine runs out of oil pressure you will hear engine bearings knocking first then it seize.
Without the engine running it does tend to knock the value a fair bit, so if it was me I would get it fixed.
You may not feel like doing it now , so chuck it in the garage and come back to it later.

 

[timmycm850]

Based on the descriptions i have read here.

Your mechanic does know the engine turns anticlockwise, incase they set up the ignition firing point in the wrong place

Take the plugs out and spray some 3 in 1 type oil in the plug holes and leav it 24 hours.

Clean the plugs, put the car in 4th gear and try pushing it forward and rock it a few times. When these cars get hot the engines get stiff. If you are lucky it may start to rotate, if you get lucky put the plugs back in and connect up the ht leads then it may start.