General Running problems

[Franko500]

It always amazes me how many threads there are about running problems on a classic 500.
How did these vehicles ever make it through an 18 year run (don't quote me on that).
Were they always breaking down?


I don't use mine very often as I spend more time rebuilding wrecks rather than drive mine. This might be some of my problems.


Just before the start of COVID I had a potential buyer come along and we went for a test drive. It was actually the first drive I had been out for this year. When I put him away last year he was running great. We went for long drives and he started whether the engine was cold or hot.


He drove nicely on the test drive and just before we got home I couldn't put my foot on the gas without him spluttering and become hesitant. So drove home with very light pressure on the pedal.


He went back in the garage for COVID shielding.
I kind of knew what the problem would be - valve clearances.


So today I finally got around to checking them out.
inlets were about 4 thou.
exhaust about 6 thou.
Why do these gaps keep tightening up on their own?


So I reset them, started him up. No problems.
Let the engine warm up and took him for a drive. rans sweet and no issues.
Fuel was low so stopped at a fuel station. let the engine settle before turning off. filled up to about 3/4's. Then he wouldn't start and the battery started dying.
Its one of these batteries with a view glass. It showed green but there is no way he would start.
I pushed him to one side and let him cool for a while. still no start but there was a fair bit of fuel in the drip tray and this had been sprayed onto the engine lid.
Called the wife

who came out with the jump leads. Connected it up and he started almost instantly. Drove around a while to charge the battery and then came home. Turned it off, then tried starting it but with no success and the battery seems to struggle with starting it.
So he is now on charge again. But there is also excess fuel in the drip tray.


Battery showed 13.6v
after trying to start it went down to 13.4v
Could my starting issue be the battery? the eye glass is still green but the battery seems to really struggle.
Is my excess fuel down to me flooding the carb whilst trying to start it with a duff battery?

 

[jackwhoo]

It always amazes me how many threads there are about running problems on a classic 500.
How did these vehicles ever make it through an 18 year run (don't quote me on that).
Were they always breaking down?


I don't use mine very often as I spend more time rebuilding wrecks rather than drive mine. This might be some of my problems.


Just before the start of COVID I had a potential buyer come along and we went for a test drive. It was actually the first drive I had been out for this year. When I put him away last year he was running great. We went for long drives and he started whether the engine was cold or hot.


He drove nicely on the test drive and just before we got home I couldn't put my foot on the gas without him spluttering and become hesitant. So drove home with very light pressure on the pedal.


He went back in the garage for COVID shielding.
I kind of knew what the problem would be - valve clearances.


So today I finally got around to checking them out.
inlets were about 4 thou.
exhaust about 6 thou.
Why do these gaps keep tightening up on their own?


So I reset them, started him up. No problems.
Let the engine warm up and took him for a drive. rans sweet and no issues.
Fuel was low so stopped at a fuel station. let the engine settle before turning off. filled up to about 3/4's. Then he wouldn't start and the battery started dying.
Its one of these batteries with a view glass. It showed green but there is no way he would start.
I pushed him to one side and let him cool for a while. still no start but there was a fair bit of fuel in the drip tray and this had been sprayed onto the engine lid.
Called the wife

who came out with the jump leads. Connected it up and he started almost instantly. Drove around a while to charge the battery and then came home. Turned it off, then tried starting it but with no success and the battery seems to struggle with starting it.
So he is now on charge again. But there is also excess fuel in the drip tray.


Battery showed 13.6v
after trying to start it went down to 13.4v
Could my starting issue be the battery? the eye glass is still green but the battery seems to really struggle.
Is my excess fuel down to me flooding the carb whilst trying to start it with a duff battery?

It's likely to be battery.
The magic eye is only giving an idea of the state of 1 cell out of 6 cells.
It only takes 1 bad cell to make a bad battery.

 

[jackwhoo]

Sorry if it 6volt battery then it only has 3 cells

 

[Franko500]

Battery charged for 30 minutes and engine cooled down. Started straight away.
If I put my lights on full beam with engine running they stay bright so guess alternator is ok.
So I’m going for the battery. Will have to get it tested.
I also found my fuel issue when I restarted it. Leaking hose at the carb.
Turns out braided fuel hose is crap.
Literally it has broken down.
When I came to pull both sections off the pipe they broke in my hands.
Lucky I found it when I did as there was fuel everywhere.
Will have to replace the front to back hose now to be sure that doesn’t fail.

 

[Franko500]

Close up of the hose

 

[jackwhoo]

Close up of the hoseView attachment 210003

Eeeek

Well done spotting that.

I have found the cotton over braided hose does not last long these days.

If you have an in line plastic filter in engine bay I have read on this forum they are dangerous in hot environs of the engine bay.

 

[Toshi 975]

I bought stainless braided hose for mine from ebay. Within a a year I was shocked to find petrol seeping out of the braiding and the rubber core had also fallen apart so the hose was just not suitable for modern fuels.

 

[the hobbler]

There are fuel lines available which ARE compatible with modern fuels---it will have it written on the side of the fuel line. They may not look very 'flash', but will do the job. If it doesn't have it written on the piping, do NOT buy it!

 

[Vitesse]

Sean,

The valve clearances do have a mind of their own when the car is put away for the winter. It’s the first thing I check when I reawaken it for spring. I have no idea why? The only logical reason I can think of is you set them when the ambient outside temperature was probably a lot warmer. Then when you stick it away for winter all the metal contracts a bit due a drop in temperature but when it starts to warm up again, it’s possibly not as warm as when you last set them. We are talking a tiny gap and they are really crucial on the 500 to get them spot on to aid warm starting and running as you know.

I must admit I think these cars don’t particularly like being parked up for long periods of time without any use. Years ago when I used to use mine for commuting into London on a daily basis. I can probably count on my hand the number of times I had any problems and I used to use it daily for 3-4 years. They just like to be driven. Peter is proof of point!

I have the braided hose on my car and it’s been on there for about 5-6 years without any problem. Personally I would bin the inline filter, apart from the fact it’s not needed, I think it makes the hose too rigid which would lead to the what you are seeing. I get all my fuel hose from here. https://www.advancedfluidsolutions.co.uk/petrol--diesel-fuel-hoses-89-c.asp

On your battery do you trickle charge it?

 

[Franko500]

Interesting points about the fuel hose.
I have ordered hose which is said to be suitable for unleaded and it’s on the hose. So fingers crossed.
I will be taking the filter off as to be honest I have never seen anything in there apart from fuel.

I like your thought process Tony #vitesse .
I don’t really get it though. Maybe it’s the combination of steel and aluminium that is the cause. Possibly not helped by the erratic use of the car.
It will be interesting to know if Peter has the same issues.

 

[fiat500]

It will be interesting to know if Peter has the same issues.

When I had the 499 engine the valve clearances benefitted from more frequent adjustments than the books say, but then it was heading towards ultimately repeating the valve failure which had taken it off the road back in the '70s.

This 650 engine, with its "top of the range" later head is effectively maintenance-free in the valve department. This might be because they allegedly fitted stronger valve-seat material although I have my doubts that they did any such thing.

In my rebuilds I devote a lot of my attention to inspecting and measuring the valve-gear very closely; measuring every working component of the rocker assembly to the best of my (limited) ability. With many original parts to choose from I end up with a hybrid assembly from several sources with the closest possible fit to the original specification. With excess clearance between the rocker and its shaft it might be difficult to get a true reading of the valve-clearance. When adjusting I always err on the side of a loose fit and try not to have the feeler-gauges pinched at all by the tappet. I have also gained from Dave Toshi 975 and his reminder of the "one off 5" rule. There are other ways to decide which valve to adjust but they can give faulty results with this engine.

Finally, and not meaning to be facetious in any way, have you considered the fact that your engine may not be run-in yet and all of this is just settlement issues?

I will obviously say that Tony Vitesse has hit it on the head pointing out that these cars like to be kept running. The downside of this is that the bodywork definitely doesn't.:bang::bang::bang: #morerustfoundeveryday

 

[berkeleyman]

Do you have an additional earth strap engine to body, this can help

 

[Franko500]

Do you have an additional earth strap engine to body, this can help

presumably this was meant for another post?
not sure what an earth strap has to do with fuel or valve clearances?