General Replacement Engine vs New Head etc.

[aobi1]

Cambelt snapped... :bang: !!

and now my garage has advised me that a replacement engine for my 2004 2.2 JTD Ulysse might be a "more economical" solution.

All advice, suggestions and/or recommendations greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[aobi1]

Update...

Now being told can't actually "just replace head" as injectors have been damaged whilst trying to remove during the work that has been carried out so far . (ie. started trying to replace head)

This is why they advising could be more economical to replace engine (injectors apparently cost over £300 each )

...have also been told that the engine is the same as peugeot 2.2 HDI engine?

Is this true?


Again... "any" advice, suggestions and/or recommendations greatly appreciated.


Thanks

 

[poggy]

Surely if they damaged the injectors removing the head they should pay for them. It must be possibly to remove the head without damaging them, so it must be their negligence.

I would tell them you want a new head and they can replace the injectors they broke.

 

[Pat H]

it's possible the injectors where siezed in and have been damaged through no fault of the garage. but somehow I suspect not.

 

[aobi1]

They're telling me basically same thing (ie. were already damaged).
Although I tend to agree with Pat's suspicians ... :worship:
...is there anyway I can prove it was their fault / negligence?

Anyway assuming that's not gonna happen...Is anyone able to confirm if it is the same engine as peugeot 2.2 HDI?

Have been looking around on web, and seems could be true. (Apparently Fiat/Peuget/Citroen have similar/common engine.)

...AND would a replacement engine be the best path to take under the circumstances?


As always all advice, suggestions and/or recommendations greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Hellcat]

Who is doing the work? A Fiat garage, or a specialist or some other garage?

Injectors shouldn't be damaged - more likely they have broken them taking them off.

 

[combwork]

It's got to be a straight price comparisin surely? Cost to remove old engine & supply & fit `new' one versus extensive top end overhaul. Can you get your hands on a `known good' engine? This is what I did when the head gasket blew on the rear cylinders of my V6 Citroen XM; garage lent me their van to go down to London for a known low milage engine. Other question is were the piston crowns damaged when the belt broke? If so, replacement engine is maybe the best option??? Just my opinion; got flu, don't know what I'm talking about:worship: :worship: :worship: :yuck: :yuck:

 

[aobi1]

Works being carried out by a (supposed) Fiat Specialist...
(Don't want to name names in case one of them is on here )

... anyway don't know about piston crowns, will try and find out.


Don't know if I can get hold of "any" replacement engine at moment, let alone a 'known good' one.

... am currently waiting for garage to see if they can locate one. They have already quoted me the price of one direct from Fiat, but at over 3k for just supplying I'm begining to think this is all a bit of a lost cause... :shakehead

Only other option that i've been able to find so far (...via a google search) is:
http://www.reconditioned-engines.co.uk/

...but don't know anything about them



So... Anyone interested in the shell of a Fiat Ulysee?

 

[bandido41]

try these links they are usually quite good and the engines usually with between 3 and 6 months warranty

http://www.find-a-part.com/pl/parts_locator_generic.asp?gclid=CKKsx_vN5o4CFQnUlAod0xjdKw

http://www.247spares.co.uk/?DCSJump...c3a0dce84e0e&gclid=CIbntoLO5o4CFQMvlAodDS2AJQ

 

[mountainmachine]

what was the case of the belt failure? As 3 yrs isnt that long were you over or nearing change time mileage wise? Perhaps contact FIAT UK and ask them why a 3yr old car's belt should be breaking (obviously if no prevailing factors).

 

[aobi1]

Thanks for the links bandido41. (...Much appreciated)

mountainmachine... you don't happen to work for any "Fiat Specialist" garages do you?... only you seem to be raising the same questions/points as the guys in the garage...

1) What cased the belt to snap?
They're suggesting engine (or somthing in engine) could have seized, as the belt doesn't appear have any obvious signs of wear/weakening.

2) Why would this happen on a car of this age/mileage ? (60k btw). Service schedule indicates a "check" at 36k and a replacement at 72k (or 5 years)...

What they're basically saying is, if I had of just had the head replaced... there could be some "other" underlying cause elsewhere... which "again" suggests a replacement engine would be a "safer" bet...


Anyway... Looks like nothing's going to be happening with it for a while... now that the "replacement head" option is out the window...

Thanks to anyone who's taken the time to read this... and a bigger thanks to everyone who's replied. :slayer:

 

[aobi1]

Hi,

Does anyone know the best way to I can confirm my engine code... (please don't say look on the block.. have done... can't find... )

Have been told I can find out with the VIN number?


Cheers

 

[bandido41]

If you ring fiat with your vin number they should be able to tell you. How about the V5?

 

[aobi1]

Thanks bandido41... Will try ringing Fiat in the morning.

Not on V5... that only has my Engine Number (long alphanumric)... I need the 3 character code... 4HW... or 4HX.. etc.


Trying to find out if a 2.2 HDi peugeot engine (from a 607) will fit.

Guy is asking what "code" my engine is

 

[poggy]

If all else fails, why not get the existing engine rebuilt by an engine specialist. I would have thought this wouldn't be too expensive.

Isn't the engine number on the chassis info plate.

 

[aobi1]

Hi Poggy,

Not sure what you mean be "re-built"... but as mentioned in earlier post, my injectors are "damaged" so would need to be replaced (..and are apparently v. expensive )

... basically looking out for cylinder head complete with injectors (which I assuming is NOT going to turn up) .. or a replacement engine (which I hoping might do)


Car is now sitting on my drive (after a short, but rather intense "discussion" with garage).



.... Err.... Where IS the chasis info plate?

 

[aobi1]

..another question.

Can anyone tell me if there are any major differences between the
DW12 Engines used in by Fiat (aka the 2.2 JTD)....
... and the 2.2 HDi engines used by Peugeot/Citroen?

From researching on the net I seemed to have confirmed that the Fiat engines are the:
4HW(DW12ATED4) or 4HWDW12ATED4

... whilst the Peugeot/Citroen engines are:
4HX (DW12TED4) or 4HXDW12TED4

I keep being told varying information regarding engine codes and which parts fit which engines.


For example would a 4HX (from a 607 for example) fit into a Fiat?... Some people say "yes, no problem".... others say "no way"....



Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

 

[poggy]

Hi Poggy,

Not sure what you mean be "re-built"... but as mentioned in earlier post, my injectors are "damaged" so would need to be replaced (..and are apparently v. expensive )

... basically looking out for cylinder head complete with injectors (which I assuming is NOT going to turn up) .. or a replacement engine (which I hoping might do)


Car is now sitting on my drive (after a short, but rather intense "discussion" with garage).



.... Err.... Where IS the chasis info plate?

Surely the injectors aren't all damaged are they ?. By re-build I mean get the engine fixed by a professional engine builder who can also check everything, quite often the parts would be cheaper than buying a new engine and far more reliable than buying an unknown second hand version.

There was a chassis info plate on our car under the bonnet, but we have sold it and I can't remember exactly where it was.

 

[andy123]

hi i have a 2.o jtd also had cambelt snapped the injectors were also seized in nobody in the area knows how to get them out other than breaking themout so went for a secondhand engine guess what ?its a peugeot engine{code psa rhw}2.0 hdi 16 valve so i dont think there is much fiat in the car apart from the the badge. so i asume the 2.2 is peugeot too we got the code of the engine block which i assume you cant access

 

[aobi1]

Update...
(For those still interested.... )


Phoned Fiat today... have confirmed the engine code is in fact a "4HW" as I suspected. (Couldn't find info plate or details on engine block though)

Unfortunately they couldn't tell me anything about the "4HX" (or the "4HZ"... which is another variant apparently:shakehead) ... as they're not used in Fiat vehicles and therefore don't come up on their systems :bang:


Poggy - Don't want to go over old ground... but trust me the injectors are knackered.. whether it was done when the cambelt snapped or later by some bl**dy idiot in the garage is debateable... I guess we'll never know...


Anyway... Thanks for sharing your experience Andy123. :slayer:

Although I'm not quite sure you've convinced me enough to risk paying out for a peugeot engine just yet (although I have actually managed to track down a 4HX now)


Will keep you posted ...
(...unless you've all heard enough of this and would just like me to shut up about it now? )