General Repair Bill!

[SB1500]

So today I got my service done, and as expected Fiat gave me a list of prices and repairs that needed done, all of them, in red for requires urgent attention so it's not looking good...

The following items;-

£240 Minor Oil Leak at Flywheel Oil Seal

£242.46 Timing Belt Due by Age Mileage

£177.98 NS+os anti-roll bar drop links (and shock absorber for driver side)

£127.10 Handbrake Adjuster (was welded and unadjustable) needs replaced

Grand Total: £787.54 :thumbs: :bang:


I'm thinking, the oil seal needs fixed first. There's £240.
Then the suspension at £180 ish. That's needed for the MOT (but that's not until November yet)
Handbrake will need adjusted eventually, I think that includes rear brakes too for around £130.
Then, the Timing Belt.. He told me at best, the non-interference engine would do 'some damage' and the idea of it doing no damage is something 'i really don't want to risk.

And of course, despite the fact I really want to keep the car until it's worth nothing / never sell it, the total is about the value of the car.. I don't know whether to...

- suck it up and pay it..
- even bother with timing belt (we don't know when it was last done)
- sell the car


For some background, I'm on Job Seekers so don't have much money, and July is the earliest I can get everything bar the timing belt done by. Then in September I'll have a Student Loan that can help with the timing belt.. Could someone please put my mind at rest, I mean, there's no signs of wear and tear on the timing and personally I'd wished they'd said that it was true the non-interference would mean no bent valves etc

I'm so confused on what to do! What are your remarks to the cost of repairs?


And some more background, I am NOT taking this to local mechanics. The area I'm in they're pretty much as intelligent as spades. The dealer who gave me these quotes is offering a two year warranty on all parts and labour which kind of leads me to believe I can be more rest assured my 'huge investment' will be worth it if something related does fail again ..

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Dilemma!
You could sell the car, as it has a long Mot so will have useful residual value. But what guarantee do you have that the next one will need work? And how open will you need to be with a buyer if he asks about the car's condition?

Or bite the bullet and do the jobs over a period of time. You will then have confidence in a car well sorted.

Some of those jobs are not difficult. For example, changing front drop links is an easy morning's work (I recently did this job on my Merc in less than thirty minutes, and the pair of drop links cost under £15). So there are ways to save money as well as spreading the cost.

 

[jrkitching]

What are your remarks to the cost of repairs?

That's in line with what I'd expect a franchised dealer to charge.

You could spend all that tomorrow and get two years warranty on what's been fixed, but 99% of your car will still be as old as it is today, and any one of a multitude of other things could fail tomorrow, several of which could leave you facing a repair bill that's more than your car is likely worth.

If you're using a main dealer to service & repair a car that's more than about five years old, it'll likely cost you more per mile in the long run than buying a new one on a pcp.

I'm so confused on what to do!

Beg, borrow or buy (possibly secondhand) some tools, and, starting with the simple stuff, learn how to do your own servicing and repairs. That's what I did as a student, as it was the only way I could afford to keep and run a car. There's a chap who comes to my local market with a big box of well used but still perfectly serviceable tools all priced at 50p each.

The advantage you will have over doing this in 1971 is that there's a wealth of information and tutorial video on the internet, there for the taking, all absolutely free, and you can come back here and get specific help for anything you might be struggling with. Another bit of good news is that, as modern cars go, the Panda is just about the easiest car to do DIY maintenance on as you can get.

It'll cost you about 20% of what it would cost to have your car maintained by a franchised dealer and the skills you learn will last you a lifetime.

Start with the droplinks, as it's just about the easiest job on the whole car. A pair of good quality new droplinks will set you back about £25. Take care not to buy some of the cheap rubbish that's advertised these days; this thread is a good example of why not.

Where appropriate, get parts from breakers; once again, the internet is your friend. Just be sure to only do this with parts that aren't wear and tear items, or you could be getting something that's no better than what you have now.

Looking at your current shopping list, the handbrake adjuster is a good example of a part you could save a lot of money on by buying secondhand.

Doing it yourself, you could easily fix everything on your list for less than the cost of a main dealer service.

 

[ytareh]

Go somewhere else cheaper ! Fiat main dealers are rarely worth the extra they charge over independents . Forget about timing belt .The suspension work is only needed for MOT unless you drive quite potholed roads and / or tear round bends / roundabouts / heavily load car etc
Does handbrake hold car on hills ? If so can also be ignored for now and even longer if you just park in gear .Reverse gear if facing downhill and first if facing uphill . Is the oil leak soiling your driveway ? Fiats were so prone to leaks they were referred to as "sweating" rather than 'leaking' by some mechanics . But yeah that's the first one to get done .If you've an MOT and they're all fail points ( well apart from timing belt) It MIGHT be time to part company . I would estimate repairs at £250-450Whether you keep might depend on what's likely to cost money next ?Tyres? Is engine oil generally clean ? ( at least when changed) Get more quote/s and let us know .A good Panda is a treasure but a neglected one could end up being a pain .

 

[SB1500]

Dilemma!
You could sell the car, as it has a long Mot so will have useful residual value. But what guarantee do you have that the next one will need work? And how open will you need to be with a buyer if he asks about the car's condition?

Or bite the bullet and do the jobs over a period of time. You will then have confidence in a car well sorted.

Some of those jobs are not difficult. For example, changing front drop links is an easy morning's work (I recently did this job on my Merc in less than thirty minutes, and the pair of drop links cost under £15). So there are ways to save money as well as spreading the cost.

I do think I'll do some of that work myself. But it'll take me at least until June to save that money up for the repairs I am looking for Fiat to do. Things like the Timing Belt and oil seal, I'd not trust a mechanic to do / take responsibility for if it's done wrong so I will bite the bullet on that.

I will research those tasks. Thanks for your reply

 

[SB1500]

That's in line with what I'd expect a franchised dealer to charge.

You could spend all that tomorrow and get two years warranty on what's been fixed, but 99% of your car will still be as old as it is today, and any one of a multitude of other things could fail tomorrow, several of which could leave you facing a repair bill that's more than your car is likely worth.

If you're using a main dealer to service & repair a car that's more than about five years old, it'll likely cost you more per mile in the long run than buying a new one on a pcp.



Beg, borrow or buy (possibly secondhand) some tools, and, starting with the simple stuff, learn how to do your own servicing and repairs. That's what I did as a student, as it was the only way I could afford to keep and run a car. There's a chap who comes to my local market with a big box of well used but still perfectly serviceable tools all priced at 50p each.

The advantage you will have over doing this in 1971 is that there's a wealth of information and tutorial video on the internet, there for the taking, all absolutely free, and you can come back here and get specific help for anything you might be struggling with. Another bit of good news is that, as modern cars go, the Panda is just about the easiest car to do DIY maintenance on as you can get.

It'll cost you about 20% of what it would cost to have your car maintained by a franchised dealer and the skills you learn will last you a lifetime.

Start with the droplinks, as it's just about the easiest job on the whole car. A pair of good quality new droplinks will set you back about £25. Take care not to buy some of the cheap rubbish that's advertised these days; this thread is a good example of why not.

Where appropriate, get parts from breakers; once again, the internet is your friend. Just be sure to only do this with parts that aren't wear and tear items, or you could be getting something that's no better than what you have now.

Looking at your current shopping list, the handbrake adjuster is a good example of a part you could save a lot of money on by buying secondhand.

Doing it yourself, you could easily fix everything on your list for less than the cost of a main dealer service.

Thanks for your reply too. I appreciate the amount of points you covered. You have definitely inspired me on the following;-

I'm going to do the suspension parts myself!
I'm going to do the handbrake part myself!
I'm going to source genuine parts online OR a brand new warrantied reputable brand for the parts.
And I have a relation who's offered to help me at their home garage with a LOT of tools he recently did all the brakes in his 2002 VW Bora so I could learn a lot.

This will save me a few hundred.

As for the Timing Belt, think I'll get Fiat to fix that as it's never been done by the looks of things (past 8 years it's been owned by relations but the last one lost the service manual). If I want five more years from the Panda (and it would be an honour if I got that!) then I think the £240 for it to be done and warrantied by Fiat is worth it, they also include the water pump too at that rate and that recently caused another relations car to be scrapped due to costly and overdue repairs!

Also, that oil seal. I know it could probably be left sure, but given the need to remove the gearbox etc it's also best left to Fiat IMO. I know there's some great mechanics out there, but my part of Northern Ireland I'm not so sure about (it was a crap mechanic who welded that handbrake after all!). Again, something I think that's worth paying for.

Your post has inspired me however. I already do my own oil filter and oil changes too every 5,000 miles. Excessive yes but to keep the Panda in great form im commited to it. Although Fiat did it this time!

I'll definitely be posting in the coming months as I buy and attempt to fit those parts so please keep an eye out as you and the other replies are an important part in this!

 

[SB1500]

Go somewhere else cheaper ! Fiat main dealers are rarely worth the extra they charge over independents . Forget about timing belt .The suspension work is only needed for MOT unless you drive quite potholed roads and / or tear round bends / roundabouts / heavily load car etc

Does handbrake hold car on hills ? If so can also be ignored for now and even longer if you just park in gear .Reverse gear if facing downhill and first if facing uphill . Is the oil leak soiling your driveway ? Fiats were so prone to leaks they were referred to as "sweating" rather than 'leaking' by some mechanics . But yeah that's the first one to get done .If you've an MOT and they're all fail points ( well apart from timing belt) It MIGHT be time to part company . I would estimate repairs at £250-450Whether you keep might depend on what's likely to cost money next ?Tyres? Is engine oil generally clean ? ( at least when changed) Get more quote/s and let us know .A good Panda is a treasure but a neglected one could end up being a pain .

I see your point and view of the repairs! The only thing is, as I want the car for another five years at least I think maybe I've got to include the timing belt and the suspension eventually?

The timing belt has never been done by the looks of things, so hopefully it won't snap?! I can't get a clear answer from Fiat as they told me 'I didn't want to risk' the belt snapping to see if the non interference engine rumour is true :-/ I know that's not an MOT fail, but it's a technical fail I might regret not sorting.

My area is terrible for speed bumps, and even slow in the Panda I can't seem to get a comfortable speed (maybe that's a side effect of the current suspension being worn?). I think I'll source and fit these components myself in due course when I can afford to.

The handbrake travel is 'too long' according to Fiat. It's fine now, with a few extra pulls, but I will be stuck if it loosens over time and it won't hold. But I'll keep it in gear should this get so bad. Will source and fit this too if I can.

The oil seal and the timing belt I'm hoping I'll both get done by July or June.

I'm just paranoid the belt will snap or the seal I'll deteriorate faster inside the months leading up to getting the repair!!!

I'll be going from driving her 6 days a week to just 3 now to ease wear and tear!

Thanks for your reply too I appreciate it

 

[Goudrons]

If it was mine and I was on a tight budget:

£240 Minor Oil Leak at Flywheel Oil Seal
Get under it (park two wheels up on a kerb), clean around the area and monitor how bad it actually is.
A lot of cars dribble a little and quite a few dribble a lot
If it's not bad (1/2 litre a week bad) forget it and don't worry.
Just keep on top of checking the oil level.

£242.46 Timing Belt Due by Age Mileage
Just put this on the back burner for now.
As you know it's non interference, but if it snaps, you're stranded and it'll need towing and a new belt fitted, it won't ruin anything except your wallet, so get it done when you haven't anything else to fork out for.
I've flogged plenty of these FIRE's ever since they came out in the mid '80s and never changed a cam belt yet or had one snap!

£177.98 NS+os anti-roll bar drop links (and shock absorber for driver side)
A pair of droplinks less than £20 and a pair of front shocks (do both sides) for £60 from shop4parts (and you can get a 10% Forum saving on this too)
My local garage would do both sides in two hours.
I'm sure you could get a bit of cash discount on labour if you shop around.
It's probably where you should start.

£127.10 Handbrake Adjuster (was welded and unadjustable) needs replaced
Not sure what's been welded, but if it works and holds the car on a hill without the lever hitting the back seat, worry about it another day when money's not as tight.
Perhaps keep an eye out for the right part used in the mean time.

Don't get too down, all used cars have issues and grips, you're on your way with this one as you know what's needed, with another you'd be starting over again with a load of new, unknown problems.

All you need now is a plan to tackle what's needed and find the right garage/mechanic or help from a friendly diyer.

 

[daveofkent]

Hi sb1500. If you're going to do all that. The cam belt is the easiest part.

Good luck with your service.

 

[Wee Smurf]

Now I remember why I didn't get a car till I was through uni and working. I simply couldn't afford one.

Anyway they'll have given you a worst case scenario.

I'd start with the suspension parts of those things. Then do others as you get the money.

If it's a minor oil leak like the one I had, you'll barely notice it. I had a few tiny black spots on the garage floor and that was the height of it. I never had to top up the oil at all between oil changes. I tend to change oil at 10K intervals.

It's good that you have a friend with a garage and tools. That'll be of great assistance to you. And you'll have a way of being able to learn as you go.

And yes, cars can be expensive little buggers every now and again. Dez's hissy fits a couple of years ago were somewhat costly but I've gotten over that now and we're still running.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

OIL SEAL: As has been said, clean off oil, carefully check your oil level, and monitor both the oil level and any oil drips/residue over the next few weeks. Many cars weep oil, and will sail through the Mot on this point with a good 'wipe-off' beforehand. A small weep can be ignored indefinitely. Fiat stated this was minor, so treat it as such.

Time is on your side for all these jobs, so sleep easy, enjoy the car, get help and do them gradually.

 

[SB1500]

Okay guys, so I've priced up the suspension parts.

Total of around £100 from eBay. All brand new parts. With two year warranties. Non genuine parts is my only concern, but they are branded.

- two new shock absorbers
- two new drop links
- one new front suspension coil from Suplex

(I replaced one coil Spring in November for the MOT - do you think I'll be okay to keep that one along with this new one to have the whole front suspension setup repaired 'together'?)

Having taken all of your advice, I plan on sorting the suspension first.

Still confused exactly about the Handbrake welding and what part I actually need :-/

Timing Belt and Oil Seal, I'm going to save up the £480 and hopefully if time allows me a few months get it booked into Fiat for those repairs.


Sound like a good plan? If it wasn't for the forum id still be pulling my hair out at the repair bill!

 

[Wee Smurf]

Is that coil spring the same brand as the other one you replaced?

 

[SB1500]

Is that coil spring the same brand as the other one you replaced?

Yes, the one I will be fitting now (in 2016) will be the exact same brand and model as the one I fitted back in November 2015 for the MOT. It's called 'Suplex' and seems to be a decent brand.

I was just concerned even the months gone by since November even that spring will be too worn in to be considered 'near enough worn' as the new one.

 

[jrkitching]

Yes, the one I will be fitting now (in 2016) will be the exact same brand and model as the one I fitted back in November 2015 for the MOT. It's called 'Suplex' and seems to be a decent brand.

I was just concerned even the months gone by since November even that spring will be too worn in to be considered 'near enough worn' as the new one.

Don't worry about it. Once the new spring has had a couple of months to settle in, I very much doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference (as long as the part specifcations are the same).

Main dealers replacing broken springs under warranty often only replace the one that's failed.

If you want to be paranoid, check the left & right ride height after fitting (but go on a decent journey first to settle the new spring).

Maintaining a 10yr old car is all about doing what needs to be done to keep it safe & reliable - it isn't necessary or cost effective to fix every minor defect or partially worn component. Sometimes common sense has to take precedence over what might be technically best practice.

 

[Wee Smurf]

Don't worry about it. Once the new spring has had a couple of months to settle in, I very much doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference (as long as the part specifcations are the same).

Main dealers replacing broken springs under warranty often only replace the one that's failed.

If you want to be paranoid, check the left & right ride height after fitting (but go on a decent journey first to settle the new spring).

Maintaining a 10yr old car is all about doing what needs to be done to keep it safe & reliable - it isn't necessary or cost effective to fix every minor defect or partially worn component. Sometimes common sense has to take precedence over what might be technically best practice.

That's exactly it. You know exactly what work has been done on your ten year old Panda and hence know what else it's likely to need.

 

[SB1500]

That's exactly it. You know exactly what work has been done on your ten year old Panda and hence know what else it's likely to need.

I'd like to thank you all for your advice and tips on how to handle car ownership and manage these problems!

Seriously, the amount of stuff I'm learning from this forum is priceless. I will be donating more once my car is back to health!

 

[SB1500]

So guys, need a bit more help.

For the suspension, I'm worried those GH units won't last very long due to their low cost and apparent bad reviews...

I found a pair of Monroe struts too on eBay that are a bit more but are they worth it?

Plus am I missing anything? Do I re-use the top parts from the car currently or will these shocks come with all I need?

Bit confused!

Considering just going to Fiat but really want to try understand what I need to do / buy!

Thanks

 

[daveofkent]

If you can't get OE, Monroe are a good brand especially for your age of car. Unbranded shocks are a waste in my experience. The amount of labour to put them on its not worth saving a few quid and having to do it again.

 

[Goudrons]

You can get OE from Shop4Parts.
Donate a couple of quid to this forum and get your discount code for 10% off, so that should be less than £60 a pair.

With OE you know they'll fit properly and be fit for the job.

As already written, steer clear of unbranded stuff.
The likes of KYB, Sachs and Monroe are OK budget/mid range items.

The top mounts are not overly reported to fail on these, so it's up to you if you replace them.
Again, probably not wise to bin the originals if they appear ok and fit cheap ones.


A couple of notes on replacing front shocks.

You need spring compressors to remove the spring from the shock and even with a decent set it's a nervous job.
It's probably less hassle to remove the struts from the car and take them to a local garage to swap the springs over.

If you are going to diy, only use good quailty compressors and point the top ends facing away from you when handling/undoing the top nut.
I didn't one time and have a permanent scar on my face because of it!

The two bolts and nuts that attach the the lower strut to the hub knuckle will no doubt be cruddy and rusty.
Soak them up a few days before with penertrating oil and wire brush all the crud out of the bolts protruding threads, this saves trying to drag the rust back through the nut.

They can be tough to shift as the bolt threads and nuts are designed not to shake or rattle loose, cheap sockets that don't fit well will round off the nuts or bolt heads.

Take a pic of which way around each top mount is fitted through the inner wing.
There's a rubber nipple on the mount and small two holes through the inner wing, record which hole the nipple fits each side and refit the same way around.

The droplinks can also be a pain to remove due to crud and rust and the fact the balljoint will spin in the socket.
More often than not you can hold the shaft with an allen key in the end of the shaft, but the allen key hole in the end can strip while you are trying to hold it and undo the rusty nuts.

Lately I've never bothered with trying to undo them, I just grind them off.
But you can often get an open ended spanner down the back if there's a flat on the shaft just under the end of the rubber boots, this holds the ball joints shaft.
If not, a tight pair of grips on the ball joint (over the rubber boot part) should hold it while you undo.