Technical Questions about changing the oil

[Advanced Driver]

I'm going to change the engine oil in my 100HP. Does anybody have any advice? On my old car I could get to everything just by turning the wheels to the right and squeezing between the wheel. I suspect that low ground clearance will mean that I need to jack up the Panda?

I'm also going to change the gearbox oil. Do I need to replace a washer for this?

Also what torque settings would people recommend? Would the gearbox plug be exactly the same torque setting as the sump plug? I guess they are both aliminium?

 

[PNL]

Oh no not another oil thread..

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

Adding to this thread would keep all of the information together:
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/228254-d-i-y-100-hp-servicing-2.html

The undertray will need removing - see my post in the above thread. We haven't yet changed the gearbox oil, so I can't help with that one.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Advanced Driver]

Out of curiousity does anybody know why they fit an undertray? To me it just seems to increase the weight, increase the cost, and make servicing more time consuming. Are there any good reasons for having it?

 

[Advanced Driver]

I've just seen a Panda service/repair manual (on a CD) on ebay. Does anybody know what these are like? I guess it would have the torque settings. I was going to change the oil this weekend but I might order this and wait another week.

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

The undertray helps to keep out dirt and water, plus has a marginal aerodynamic benefit. It features a NACA duct to channel some air into the engine bay generally and to specifically cool the sump:



I have one of those discs but as of yet, I've not taken a look at its contents. We have the Autodata books for unknown torque settings, etc.

 

[doctorchris]

I've just seen a Panda service/repair manual (on a CD) on ebay. Does anybody know what these are like? I guess it would have the torque settings. I was going to change the oil this weekend but I might order this and wait another week.

Those CDs are not much use for the models they cover, i.e. 1.1 and 1.2 petrol, let alone other models.
There are a few torque settings given but it's patchy.
The taper fit plugs on the gearbox don't need to be very tight so take care with them.
I'm not sure but I suspect some Panda gearboxes may not have a drain plug, only a filler. My only reliable experience is with 4x4 boxes which do have a drain plug but are completely different boxes from the front wheel drive models.

 

[Advanced Driver]

I'm not sure but I suspect some Panda gearboxes may not have a drain plug, only a filler.

Actually, that's what I thought. A mechanic did tell me that they had a drain plug, but maybe he was wrong?

If they don't have a drain plug then how do you change it, do you need to suck it out?

 

[doctorchris]

If they don't have a drain plug then how do you change it, do you need to suck it out?

The Panda service and repair CD describes removing the gearbox but does not mention draining the oil. This leads me to suspect that the oil may just be left in if the 'box is removed for, say, a clutch change. If the internals of the 'box are to be worked on then maybe the oil is drained after removal.
Gear oil replacement is not a specified service procedure on many cars these days, hence the lack of a drain plug. I find that it doesn't really need replacing until the car has done 60-70,000 miles when the gearchange can get a bit stiff. Even at that mileage the oil comes out nice and clear with very little swarf in it.

 

[Advanced Driver]

Gear oil replacement is not a specified service procedure on many cars these days, hence the lack of a drain plug. I find that it doesn't really need replacing until the car has done 60-70,000 miles when the gearchange can get a bit stiff. Even at that mileage the oil comes out nice and clear with very little swarf in it.

I've got 2 litres of gearbox oil, I guess I can't do much with it?

I wish my gearchange was a bit stiff . I really want to see how much swarf there is, but I don't know how I would find that because it usually sticks to the drain plug. My previous car had quite a bit of swarf in it after about 70k.

 

[doctorchris]

There's still no problem with checking the gearbox oil level. My previous Panda 4x4 was about 10% down on its gearbox oil level when I checked, with no evidence of a leak. Topping up resolved gearbox noise and some crunchy gear changes that had been noticeable from new.
At just over 10,000 miles my present Panda Cross, just yesterday, exhibited the crunchy 1st to 2nd change, if performed too quickly, that the previous 4x4 suffered. Time to check my 'box oil level!

 

[Advanced Driver]

There's still no problem with checking the gearbox oil level.

It has been checked twice by two different places now, and the level is correct.

 

[SurreyAlan]

Out of curiousity does anybody know why they fit an undertray? To me it just seems to increase the weight, increase the cost, and make servicing more time consuming. Are there any good reasons for having it?

the first time I drove it onto the garage and it hit all the bits of leftover timber I have there showed it had a purpose.
And those CD's, I bought one from e-bay and I really wouldn't waste your money.

 

[Advanced Driver]

It looks like I'll need to guess the torque for the sump plug. When there isn't a workshop manual it makes DIY servicing/repairs very difficult. Why can't Haynes do a manual? I bet they will in a few years time, so why don't they do one now and get a few more sales?

 

[trackdayqueen]

It looks like I'll need to guess the torque for the sump plug. When there isn't a workshop manual it makes DIY servicing/repairs very difficult. Why can't Haynes do a manual? I bet they will in a few years time, so why don't they do one now and get a few more sales?

Just nip it up. I really don't think you need to worry too much about what the torque setting might be. Just tighten it, till you feel it go home, then nip it slightly.

Have you done this kind of thing before?

I've changed oils many, many times on many different cars and I have never looked for a torque setting for the sump plug.

I always ensure wheel nuts are torqued correctly and have also torqued spark plugs, but don't worry about things like sump plugs.

 

[Advanced Driver]

Have you done this kind of thing before?

I've changed oils many, many times on many different cars and I have never looked for a torque setting for the sump plug.

Yes, I've done it many times on my previous Fiat without a torque wrench. These are ali though and they seem to be very fragile. Some people on here have had to replace the sump. I don't want this to happen to me.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Yes, I've done it many times on my previous Fiat without a torque wrench. These are ali though and they seem to be very fragile. Some people on here have had to replace the sump. I don't want this to happen to me.

I think, then, just be careful when you do it. Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[Advanced Driver]

Well, it was hard work, but I've done it! I didn't have any real problems and I didn't jack it up.

I can't believe how long it took me. Getting the undertray off wasn't a great experience. I had to stretch my arm out to reach the back ones. Getting it back on was a nightmare though. It was a bit difficult holding it in place while I put the bolts in.

My biggest concern was the sump plug, but I don't think I had any problems with it. I won't really know whether it was overtightened until the next time it comes out. When I undid it I did cut my finger on something when it came lose. It was quite difficult to remove the washer from the sump plug, I don't know whether that's normal. I had to use a blade to get it off.

As others have mentioned, the filter is very close to the engine. There is probably about a 5mm gap at one end and about 1mm at the other end. This made it almost impossible to loosen it by hand so I had to use one of the strap/belt things. The filter was on the front of the engine too, so I had to put the sump plug back in and clean up the rear so that I could move the tray to the front. With my Seicento I could remove the filter while the oil was draining because it was directly about the sump plug.

I'm starting to wonder whether it's worth doing DIY oil changes. It seems to take so much longer. I also managed to spil a load of oil on the floor, so I spent a while clearing that up. I was supprised at how black the oil was, it had only done 7000 miles. I gave it that Selenia Pure Energy stuff (5W40), I would have given it 20K, but as it was already on 5W40 I didn't think it was a good idea to change to a thicker oil.