General Pondering a Panda

[Steve70]

As a long-term Cinquecento and Seicento owner, when it comes to a slightly more modern daily hack I thought I'd try and stay in the Fiat family and I must admit I do like the Tonka toy practicality of the mid-noughties Panda.

There seem to be loads of these cars available for not a lot of money in a variety of conditions, but now they are getting on a bit I'd appreciate any advice on any potential problems to watch out for. My work entails a 60 mile a day B-road commute. Am I better off going for a diesel (which I think qualifies for the £30 a year tax) or are the petrol engines better?


Steve

 

[Goudrons]

I would stick with petrol, the diesel can be a bit fussy and they aren't great from diy repairs, you usually need a diesel specialist/garage when they give trouble.

There's little that goes wrong with the 1.2 petrol FIRE and it's cheap and easy to look after.


A later 1.2 petrol "Eco" model should also be £30 RFL.
The 1.2 Eco Dynamic tend to have better interiors and I think air con as well, so worth seeking out.


There isn't too much to worry about, the usual used car stuff except a few items.
The rear axle can rust up really badly, they'll all look a bit scabby but you need to get under there and check it's solid. A rotten one will often write a car off as new ones are expensive and used are usually scrap as well.
Later model Panda and 500 one fit physically fit, but the track is wider.


The sump pan can also rust up a bit and leak when they do, a fairly cheap fix but if it's leaking it's probably been ran low on oil.
The trick is to wipe it over every oil change with an oily rag to protect it.

The power steering is electric and requires a good battery otherwise they tend to play up.

Some have had problems with the torque sensor and the problems are similar to a duff/low battery though they tend to be earlier cars.
Make sure the steering is smooth and doesn't tug one way or the other at all speeds.

 

[09 johno]

I have owned a 1.1 2009 eco active Panda for about 10 months now, I do a weekly commute of 120 miles each way plus day running.
About 50% of my travelling is on 'B roads and country lanes.
Pro's
economical (52mpg on a run, 45mpg in town), narrow, well built, spacious internally for the size, ease of driving, light steering, good brakes, good heater ( mine is not air-conned, but isn't that why opening windows were invented!)


Cons
suspension can be a bit harsh, seat in mine not adjustable for height. the narrow build can make it feel unstable on certain corners, but that may be due to suspension issues that I am about to address.

Faults that I've come across with my Panda

The wireing on the ECU, on the type with 2 inline plugs, is heavy and not supported,this stretches the connections in the plug, either causing a broken wire or loose pin, strangley, always to one of the coils, this can cause the engine to run rough, cut out or not start at all and also brings on a MIL warning with the codes of coil failure and/or power supply failure. it is a simple fix. by soldering or making a strong-arm to support the wireing (which I have done temp out of a wooden spoon handle! soon to be replaced with some electrical conduit).
There is also a junction within the wireing loom, originally it was a plug type connection but was changed to solder, unfortunatley the factory solder skills wern't great and this point can suffer from a dry solder joint, again easy fix and its on the supply to the coils again (red/white wire)!

The above faults may be the reason the previous owner sold the car, but I have read on the forum similar issues for 2007-2009 Panda's

Another issue to watch out for is the rear suspension spring pans corroding out, I preserved mine within a week of owning the car, I am also about to change the front wishbones as the bushes are on the way out, this may solve the unstable feeling mentioned above.

However, a great car and probably ideal for what you need as long as you don't want to drive at high speed and use wheel spin acceleration..........

 

[Steve70]

Thanks for the replies! That's very helpful indeed. I try to be as hands-on as I can when it comes to maintenance so it sounds like the petrol version is little friendlier- and anything that involves makeshift repair with a wooden spoon handle is right up my street! Wheel spinning acceleration is not for me, I can assure you!

I'm sure any of the Panda variants will be more fun than the 2006 Focus C-Max 1.6 diesel I currently run, which is very practical and sensible but also one of the most joyless cars I've ever owned. I just can't bond with it at all. I think you are either a big car or a small car person and I'm the latter!


Steve

 

[Goudrons]

I have owned a 1.1 2009 eco active Panda for about 10 months now,

Faults that I've come across with my Panda

The wireing on the ECU, on the type with 2 inline plugs, is heavy and not supported,this stretches the connections in the plug, either causing a broken wire or loose pin, strangley, always to one of the coils, this can cause the engine to run rough, cut out or not start at all and also brings on a MIL warning with the codes of coil failure and/or power supply failure. it is a simple fix. by soldering or making a strong-arm to support the wireing (which I have done temp out of a wooden spoon handle! soon to be replaced with some electrical conduit).
There is also a junction within the wireing loom, originally it was a plug type connection but was changed to solder, unfortunatley the factory solder skills wern't great and this point can suffer from a dry solder joint, again easy fix and its on the supply to the coils again (red/white wire)!

Oddly, this issue only seems to to bother the 1.1 engine.
1.2's don't suffer from this.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Another issue to watch out for is the rear suspension spring pans corroding out, I preserved mine within a week of owning the car, I am also about to change the front wishbones as the bushes are on the way out, this may solve the unstable feeling mentioned above.

However, a great car and probably ideal for what you need as long as you don't want to drive at high speed and use wheel spin acceleration..........

We've had our 2010 Dynamic Eco 1.2 for just under a year now and I can confirm the tax is £30.00p yearly. The Dynamic Eco was only produced for two years '09 and '10 I wanted one because it has the older, less complicated 60hp euro 4 engine but still only attracts the £30 tax.

She's needed a little "fettling" and a clutch since we bought her (with just over 60'000 miles on the clock) In fact the actual clutch friction plate still had some life in it but had obviously been "cooked" at some time in it's life. The slave cylinder also creaked loudly when being worked so in the end we just fitted a clutch kit (Valeo) and a slave cylinder (Done by Harrison's in Leith and I mention them because I am very pleased with their work).

I have a few things still to address, rear brake rebuild, strut top mounts, and the rear axle which looks quite sound (Harrison's said it looked "average" and should be ok for her coming MOT but I know it's rusty and I should do something about it. I don't think I want to drop the whole axle off and send it to be galvanized - was thinking more along the lines of Waxoyl or similar? What did you do to yours?

She also has a slight engine hesitation when under load, not as severe as a misfire, more like running to lean. Can't find anything obvious like HT leads, plugs, air filter, and no DTC's come up on MES. I'm beginning to suspect the MAP sensor. Anyone else had this?

Regards
Jock

 

[rmjbn1]

Hi Steve, almost all my driving is on B roads and country lanes & I find my '54 plate 1.2 petrol a perfect companion, it always puts a smile on my face. I've had it 4 months and very happy with it. If I'd had time to wait for one to come up near me, I would have tried to get a later (from 2009) 1.2 ECO for the cheaper tax.

I've rust-proofed my rear axle, but it wasn't too rusty. I don't think anything major has been replaced on mine in 15 years, and the advisories on the last MOT were corrosion on the front shock absorbers, and deteriorated lower bushes on the front wishbones, so worth checking.

Oh, Hi, Jock! I treated my rear axle by wire brushing the underside of the spring pans & painting with red oxide primer & hammerite, then followed DaveMcT's advice to use chainsaw oil thinned with white spirit to douse the whole thing to include areas I couldn't reach.

Mine does very occasionally have a little hesitation under load too, it seems to be after refuelling, but not always. I've replaced spark plugs but not cleaned the MAP sensor yet, so I might do this next if it recurs.

 

[09 johno]

was thinking more along the lines of Waxoyl or similar? What did you do to yours?
Regards
Jock

The axle on mine was in pretty good condition with slight crusting on the spring pans, so rather than go silly I cleaned off the surface rust then undersealed the whole trailing arm. I will have another look in the summer to see if it needs any deeper work, I think Waxoil should do the job nicely and will also keep the springs supple, I use it on my leaf springs for that very purpose.

 

[DaveMcT]

I fitted a 2015 Fiat 500 axle and springs to my wife's 1.2 Dynamic. It's improved the ride and the handling, but needed the rubber top buffers are both ends of the springs to restore the ride height.

The axle is stiffer, so you MUST use the 500 springs or it will feel like there are no springs under the car. The suspension is more complaint so car copes a lot better on rough back roads. There is no increased body roll because the 500 axle has a built in anti roll bar.

For less hassle, the thinned chain saw oil works a treat. It soaks into the metal and any rusty areas then gels quite quickly.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

My 169 puddle jumper is the diesel version. The comments above about the Panda weaknesses are accurate. Check rear spring pans and Waxoil them once or twice a year and that gets rid of one potential problem. The electric power steering is the other main gripe, and this can begin giving annoying faults long before it says goodbye - like a gentle tug to one side.

My diesel usually does short journeys and averages just over 75 mpg, while longer trips - say 60 miles or more - give me an easy 85mpg. I drive gently, but I don't dawdle and I'm no hypermiler.

On my last 169 I electronically deleted the egr valve, but on this one I've just unplugged it so that it stays closed (inoperative) permanently. Yes, the eml is on, but as I know the cause it doesn't bother me.

You pays your money ......

 

[DaveMcT]

Can you not blank off the EGR with a blank gasket?

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Yes Dave, you can just blank it off, but ...
It's a right pig to get to, under the engine and you need very long double jointed fingers and a good original vocabulary! Not worth the hassle when just unplugging does the same job. Plug it back in for the Mot.

 

[DaveMcT]

Yes Dave, you can just blank it off, but ...
It's a right pig to get to, under the engine and you need very long double jointed fingers and a good original vocabulary! Not worth the hassle when just unplugging does the same job. Plug it back in for the Mot.

Fair point.

They usually sit on the top so I guess Fiat saw us coming.