Technical Please help 1.9 multijet heaterplug problem

[Marcuspuntus]

Hi all, I am hoping you guys will be able to help me with this, I have a 2007 grandpunto 1.9 multijet that is a bugger to start when warm, is fine when cold or hot, has been into fiat main dealer three times and has had the heater plug control replaced, then the heater plugs and wiring, they then said it was the injectors. Took it to a injector specialist and they gave them the all clear so I went looking at the heater plugs myself. I have connected a meter to one of the heaters, when I start it from cold I get power to the plugs as you would expect, crank it over and it starts, the power continues to the plugs for about two minutes. Ok, run engine for five minutes and turn off, leave for 30 min and try starting again and there is no power to the heaters, after a lot of turning over it starts with a cloud of smoke then the heaters come on, they run for two minutes and go off. This can only be the heater plug control that Fiat say they replaced or the ECU not telling the control to switch the plugs on, any thoughts would be appreciated..

 

[Snails]

Hi there, I don't think the problem is heater plug related at all.
From what I know, the plugs are not used unless the outside temp is below 5 degrees Celsius. Otherwise the air-fuel mixture self detonates from the heat generated from the compression.
I would think it's normal for the ECU to not switch on the plugs in this scenario, I don't imagine it's that cold in the UK right now.

My thoughts would be take it to other shops, get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion, you might be surprised.

 

[Marcuspuntus]

Hi Snails, thanks for your reply, you are probity correct, the glow plugs do come on in the morning and when the car has been sitting for longer times, I can see this on the meter. I have spent over £1000 so far in garages, I don't have money to spend on it any more, the main dealer does not want to know or does not know how to know, the injection place are limited to the fuel injection side of things, there is also a trust issue now, who di I trust??

 

[Snails]

I would ask the guys here for a local garage that is trustworthy.

 

[MrDerv]

Has your EGR been looked at yet?

If you have access to tools, take it off and give it a thorough clean. Refit and try again.

If the engine is warm, perhaps the EGR is sticking, which in turn is allowing the engine to pull in exhaust gases through the intake, as a result, the MAF is not seeing enough airflow to start. When it eventually starts, the smoke is the unburnt diesel in the cylinders that eventually burns off when the engine runs.

EGR issues can be the bain of engine starting problems, and a lot of people misdiagnose it for other issues such as injectors or electrical (in your case, glowplugs).

A diesel engine can start without glowplug activation, it just takes longer while the heat builds up from the compression during cranking.

 

[g8rpi]

Hi Snails, thanks for your reply, you are probity correct, the glow plugs do come on in the morning and when the car has been sitting for longer times, I can see this on the meter. I have spent over £1000 so far in garages, I don't have money to spend on it any more, the main dealer does not want to know or does not know how to know, the injection place are limited to the fuel injection side of things, there is also a trust issue now, who di I trust??

Were are you located?
Another possible issue is sensor related, the ECU may think it's hot when it's not. Does the temperature gauge read normally?


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Marcuspuntus]

Thanks for all your replies, I will have a look at the egr valve, looks like carb cleaner is the thing to use to clean it with so it will be tonight's job.
The temperature reading is what I thought a while ago, both Fiats and the injection place I took it to say that the temperature reading to the ECU is accurate, I have no way to confirm this.
I am in Canterbury in Kent, that tells you which fiat agent I took it to..Im sure they said injectors to get rid of me knowing I would not pay out £1400 on the car, if anyone knows of a trustable garage it would be gratefully received.
Also is there a programme I can get and run on a laptop that would give me access to the ECU, I am not a complete numpty and could possibly find the cause myself.

 

[g8rpi]

Hi Best software is Multiecuscan www.multiecuscan.net You need a windows laptop (anything from XP on) and an ELM 327 uUSB interface lead. for example ebay item 271275445368 or with abaptors for ABS etc, item 161715574389 (I've used both sellers).
Make sure everthing connects and you are happy before you pay the Multiecuscan registration fee. At 50 Euros it's a bargain.

Robert G8RPI.